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donne's poetry in folk music
Posted by: readerthinker (---.webjogger.net)
Date: November 11, 2021 08:24PM

I was at a folk music concert recently, and the singer attributed the last stanza of his song to Donne. I can't seem to find the poem to which he was referring. Here is the stanza:

Stay, O sweet, and do not rise
The light that shines comes from thine eyes
The day breaks not, it is my heart
Because that you and I must part

Anybody have a clue?


Re: donne's poetry in folk music
Posted by: IanB (---.tnt11.mel1.temp.da.uu.net)
Date: November 12, 2021 09:27AM

There are two more lines to complete the stanza:

Stay, or else my joys will die
And perish in their infancy.

And yes, it has been attributed to John Donne, titled as 'Daybreak', in various anthologies including the Oxford Book of English Verse edited by Arthur Quiller-Couch. There may however be some doubt about that. I have also seen it attributed to 'Anon'. It isn't in the Wordsworth Poetry Library edition (1994) of Donne's work, which does include the following three stanzas under the title 'Breake of Day':

Tis true,tis day: what though it be?
O, wilt thou therefore rise from me?
Why should we rise because tis light? <br /> Did we lie down becausetwas night?
Love, which in spite of darkness brought us hither,
Should in despite of light keep us together.

Light hath no tongue, but is all eye.
If it could speek as well as spy,
This were the worst that it could say: -
That, being well, I fain would stay,
And that I lovd my heart and honour so, <br /> That I would not from him, that had them, go. <br /> <br /> Must business thee from hence remove? <br /> Oh, thats the worse disease of love!
The poor, the fool, the false, love can
Admit, but not the busied man.
He, which hath business, and makes love, doth do
Such wrong, as when a married man doth woo.

These stanzas on the same subject are so much less elegant than the one you have asked about, that I'm not surprised there's some question whether Donne did write the latter. It achieves its sheer beauty with simple wording and syntax in a way that is more characteristic of Shakespeare's short love lyrics, e.g. 'O Mistress Mine' in 'Twelfth Night'.



Post Edited (11-13-03 07:43)


Re: donne's poetry in folk music
Posted by: readerthinker (---.webjogger.net)
Date: November 13, 2021 07:55PM

Thanks, Ian, for your thoughtful reply. In the meanwhile I had found the poem, but it also struck me that the stanzas proceeding it weren't of quite the same tone as the first four lines.

FYI it was Richard Shindell, a wonderful acoustic guitarist/folk singer, who used the first four lines in his ballad "Fenario." Check it out on his website, if you like.


Re: donne's poetry in folk music
Posted by: Linda (---.cache.pol.co.uk)
Date: November 14, 2021 03:02PM

How does that song relate to the old folk song Fenario, aka Bonny lass of Fenario, aka Pretty Peggy ?


Re: donne's poetry in folk music
Posted by: Chesil (---.clvdoh.adelphia.)
Date: November 17, 2021 05:43PM

Interesting, Ian.

I have the same edition of Donne's works as you and, as you say, it is not included. I also have The Love Poems of Robert Herrick and John Donne edited by Louis Untermeyer and published by Barnes & Noble where the stanza is included but as a separate poem also titled Break of Day


Re: donne's poetry in folk music
Posted by: IanB (---.tnt11.mel1.da.uu.net)
Date: November 18, 2021 09:37AM

Some more information, mostly from the 1929 revised edition of Sir Herbert Grierson’s ‘Donne: Poetical Works’ (Oxford University Press).

That book aimed to be a definitive collected, based on study of the printed editions of Donne’s poems which were published (after his death in 1631, aged 59) in 1633, 1635, 1639, 1650-1654, and 1669, and ‘early manuscripts’. I’m unclear whether by those Grierson means handwritten copies, or the printed editions, or both. According to the 1929 introduction, his first edition (1910), which I don’t have, gives more detail about the sources.

Grierson places the ‘Stay O Sweet’ stanza in an appendix of works he classes as probably wrongly attributed to Dunne, and says of it ‘Perhaps by John Dowland’. Its first known publication was as a complete lyric in John Dowland’s last published song collection ‘A Pilgrim’s Solace’ (1612). Dowland, who died in 1626, was a celebrated lutanist who published several collections of songs. He didn’t attribute his lyrics. Scholars believe he wrote some himself, but mostly collected what was circulating from authors now unknown. There was no copyright law then, and anyone was free to adopt others’ work.

Grierson notes that in some manuscripts this lyric opens with the prosaic ‘Lie still my dear’ instead of ‘Stay, O sweet’. I wonder whether that was a corruption by musicians/singers who, where poetry was concerned, couldn’t tell lightning from a lightning bug; or whether it was a relic of an original version which some inspired poet polished to create the version we know today. Shakespeare died in 1616. ‘Lie still my dear’ sounds even less like Donne, whose poetry tends to avoid the obvious and be elaborately patterned (or as Grierson says, ‘knotted’), e.g. his brilliant ‘The Sunne Rising’.

The three ‘Breake of Day’ stanzas which are indisputably by Donne are recorded in all the printed editions referred to by Grierson. According to him the ‘Stay O Sweet’ stanza was prefixed to those stanzas in the 1669 printed edition and in one manuscript. He says other manuscripts have it as a separate poem, but doesn’t say which if any of them attribute it to Donne, and when that first occurs. Maybe the manuscripts were undated.



Post Edited (12-06-03 19:05)


Re: donne's poetry in folk music
Posted by: Chesil (---.clvdoh.adelphia.)
Date: November 19, 2021 05:45AM

Thanks, Ian. It looks like an insoluble mystery. It doesn't have the same feel, as you say, and maybe was a discarded fragment that was found, or simply wrongly attributed as Grierson argues.


Richard Shindell
Posted by: Henry (213.78.119.---)
Date: December 06, 2021 07:43AM

SUNDAY, DECEMBER 7 1 PM, Eastern Standard Time FOLKSCENE: Roz and Howard Larman have hosted FolkScene for three decades on the West Coast. Now their program is on Folk Radio each week. Hear about the scene from the other coast, including performances recorded in-studio. Today's program features Richard Shindell recorded live at McCabe's Guitar Shop on May 10, 2002.

You can find Boston Folk Radio at [www.wumb.org]. Eastern Standard Time is five hours behind GMT ie this programme will be at 6pm in England. Ian, what time zone are you in? You'll have to work the time out for yourself!

Here's a seasonal verse from Christina Rossetti;

The shepherds had an angel,
The wise men had a star;
But what have I, a little child,
To guide me home from far,
Where glad stars sing together
And singing angels are?

She must have been thinking of the concert of South Pennine carols that we went to last night.

Best wishes from Henry




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