I'm doing an assignment on these two poems which requires me to analyse the two poems in terms of individual and society. The other posts on this poem don't seem to focus on this aspect. Any help greatly appreciated.

You are correct: they have absolutely nothing to do with such an aspect.

Hahaha. Yeah, but thats not the point. We are doing the HSC in NSW where its compulsary to do a reading of the poem in terms of the individual in society in the 19th Century.

I just read them yesterday, they carry pretty low modality language. We know that the meeting is clandestine and secret, individuals acting without the consent or against the convention of society.

The first poem is passionate, but its passion is undercut by parting at morning, its most significant line for our purposes being "And the need of a world of men for me.", which can be read as a statement on the state of the feminine in victorian society congruent with browning's other poems on the matter.

The interesting thing is you dont know who is speaking in the 2nd poem, is it the woman or the man?

724. Meeting at Night

THE gray sea and the long black land;
And the yellow half-moon large and low;
And the startled little waves that leap
In fiery ringlets from their sleep,
As I gain the cove with pushing prow, 5
And quench its speed i' the slushy sand.

Then a mile of warm sea-scented beach;
Three fields to cross till a farm appears;
A tap at the pane, the quick sharp scratch
And blue spurt of a lighted match, 10
And a voice less loud, thro' its joys and fears,
Than the two hearts beating each to each!

Parting at Morning

ROUND the cape of a sudden came the sea,
And the sun look’d over the mountain’s rim:
And straight was a path of gold for him,
And the need of a world of men for me.

notes:
cove
# A small sheltered bay in the shoreline of a sea, river, or lake.
#

1. A recess or small valley in the side of a mountain.
2. A cave or cavern.

# A narrow gap or pass between hills or woods.

pushing prow - the speaker arrives by boat

In the first part the speaker is "obviously" the man, as he is the one traveling at night by boat. Can you imagine a victorian woman doing so? And typically, the woman is at her home waiting for the man. (You can refer to the Lady of Shalott of Tennyson maybe).

The woman is the speaker of the second poem. She says "me" and "him", so unless they were both men, the speaker must be the woman.

When the morning comes, he has a path of gold. He is free, he can go wherever he wants, while she needs men to do things. Not very free. Is she being sarcastic here? Is she aware of the injustice?

She's on a farm, she has commitments that he does not. Does she need men to do things, or is it that the farm men (her father and brothers, perhaps) won't be able to manage without her. Can they work the farm with no-one to mind the house? Her lover is free to go, but if she goes she destroys the farm.

>The woman is the speaker of the second poem. She says "me" and "him",
>so unless they were both men, the speaker must be the woman.

Nuh-uh. He is a sailor; she is a farm girl. The him in the 2nd stanza is the sun.

And the sun look’d over the mountain’s rim:
And straight was a path of gold for him,
And the need of a world of men for me.

you mean the him in the second line here is the sun? I really feel it is the man, and the me in the third line a woman, and the two opposed.

I agree that he is a sailor and she a farm girl though.

Zac, what do you mean by 'low modality' language?

I agree with Hugh that the two Browning poems weren't intended to say anything significant about the place of the individual in 19th Century society. If the New South Wales Education Department makes it compulsory for you to assume that they do, and to focus on that aspect, that's another example of the way the sociologist dills in the Department have hijacked the English syllabus. Roll on the current moves by the federal Minister of Education to take it away from them, I say.

'Meeting at Night' isn't a difficult poem. You and Desi have interpreted it well enough. Not sure how referring to the Lady of Shalott could help you though. The basis of Tennyson's poem is that that Lady never had any visiting lover. Also, his poem told a mythical tale from the age of King Arthur, not the 19th Century.

Query whether the proffered interpretations of 'Parting at Morning' are the most appropriate.

It seems you are required to assume that Browning meant 'Parting at Morning' as some kind of sequel to 'Meeting at Night', even though the poems are so different in length, style and content. Not an unreasonable assumption, since Browning published them together, originally under the combined title ‘I Night, II Morning’.

Isn’t it more likely then that it’s the same speaker in both poems?

The first line of 'Parting at Morning' refers to the sea coming suddenly ‘round the cape’. It’s not describing a tsunami, so I infer that the speaker is the one moving, maybe walking along a path, and that this brings the sea into view round some bend.

I doesn’t seem likely that the farm girl who could only meet her man clandestinely at night has risen to take a brisk walk with him (or even alone) at sunrise. So I infer that it’s the man walking, and – because of the reference to the sea – that he’s returning to the cove where he left his boat beached the night before.

To whom then does ‘him’ in the 3rd line refer? I read that as referring to the rising sun. A frivolous personification in the thoughts of a man made cheerful by a night of love.

The meaning of the fourth line is unclear. Does it mean that the speaker needs a ‘world of men’ (whatever that is), or that a 'world of men' needs the speaker? Either meaning would hardly reflect well on a female speaker concerned for her virtuous reputation (i.e. not being a Mae West type). Either however would fit a male speaker who has taken leave of his mistress and is focused on returning to his position and responsibilities among men. Perhaps he’s a ship’s officer who has come ashore in a small boat, and is duty bound to return to his ship with its crew consisting of men only. They need him, and he needs them.

What all this means for the sociological question you have been asked to address, I have no idea, but I suggest it’s a more plausible interpretation of the poem.


PS: I see that while I was typing but before I could post this, Hugh has posted a comment along the same lines, but I'll post anyway.





Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 09/07/2021 02:08AM by IanB.

"sea coming suddenly ‘round the cape’." what about spring tide? (although your interpretation is good too)

Here is a link about why I think the lady of shalott would be a way to say about more about society. I agree that it is a bit far-fetched for this browning poem, but well, if the teachers ask for it, all we can do is comply.

<[www.emule.com]>

Upon fourth reading, I must say you and Hugh convinced me (and how I hate it ;-) . The speaker in the second part is most likely the man and the sun the him, as the sun is already personified in the second line:

And the sun look’d over the mountain’s rim

However, this makes it even harder to say anything about individual and society if you can't even link it to the difffence between women and men. Apparently, the woman is good to spend a night with, but he needs men to live??

Clearly, the spurting seaman (no pun intended) was left unsatisfied from the romp with the maiden, and prefers to be ravished by (Greek) sailors on the swishing main.

No? Well, heck - at least I can use it to fit the requirements of the assignment!

1st poem describes a secret meeting between a farm (girl or woman?!) and her sailor lover.

2nd poem, meeting over, she gets on with her life, he goes back to sea

The golden path should be referring to the golden shadows of the sunrise on the sea

I guess the question here is, why couldnt she follow her lover? Was it because sailors at the time were looked down upon?
'Back to the world of men' is a very interesting phrase to use, when one says that, they normally mean they wake from a dream, or get back to reality. Therefore this should mean that being together with her lover is just a dream, and is not possible for her.

Could it be referring to societal structure at the time, the nobility and commoners? The farm girl/woman was someone in a stable life, landed property, had duties to the world of men (cooking, cleaning...). The sailor on the other hand is generally viewed as free, a rover, careless, rootless, vagabond.

So if viewed as representatives of their respective classes, the gentle lady would not be allowed to love a common man.

OR, if the noble were the MAN, while the lady was what was known as 'lady of the night', the straight gold path for him could refer to the 'straight line' he would walk in day (in the public eye), gold path =a path paved in gold = a rich life, rch person, gentleman?. Which is why the meetings happen at night, in secret.

Who used the phrase 'Back to the world of men'?

It might be worth reflecting on what sort of sailor he was. Neither a naval vessel or merchant would seem likely. Fisherman or smuggler seems more probable to me and the latter would explain the clandestine nature of the encounter.

For the parting, I think the sailor is leaving the cove in his boat (Round the cape of a sudden came the sea) and returning to his compatriots (the world of men) and that it is indeed the sun being described as him in the third line.

Well ok, it was 'the need of the world of men'. Its still an interesting phrase

< It might be worth reflecting on what sort of sailor he was >

The tryst at the farmhouse implies that the sailor knew the layout, and had control over where his vessel stopped offshore. I agree with Chesil that this probably rules out a naval vessel or merchant. Smuggler is plausible, as well as romantic, though I'd look to some other reason than smuggling for the couple's secrecy. Perhaps illicit snuggling was no less frowned upon.

yes, i also agree with Chesil. It seems that the disposition of the entire essay was based ilicitly on the inflating outcome of both sensory and metaphysical conventions. But to better reflect the plausible yet romantic atmosphere, one must deviate from the entire meaning. This poem is realistically the narration of a controversal affair, interluding to previous and preordained views of the contextual inquistion.

I hope your teachers can understand what you are saying here, X!
I hope the 'Mr' in your Username doesn't signify that you are in fact one of the teachers.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/15/2005 08:37PM by IanB.

I second that!

i think a great percentage of most texts we study for most subjects in the HSC weren't written with the author's intent for them to be studied for what we're studying them for now.
the HSC is about ignoring the true meaning of the poems/texts and finding minor examples of things that relate to what we're meant to be studying.

This poem (and a lot of other Browning poems) is a classic example of such study. The main thing you can get from this poem is that the both want to be in a relationship but due to society's restrictions upon them, they have to do it secretly. Their both the "individual" from the module "Individual in Society".