For English, I am to write a six paragraph, comparative essay, based upon my judgment of the better of two poems. I am to judge the best from their usage of sound, figurative language, tone, and thought.

I maintain A's and B's English overall, and I have done well with my other poetry assignment. However, I find this particular poetry essay difficult in areas.

I have questions to go by so that I write each paragraph in the essay appropriately.

I could really, really use all the help I can get on this. I am not asking for answers; maybe just a good "shove" in the right directions. Feel free to post here or E-mail me (E-mailing is probably best!).

I HAVE to get a passing grade on this. Otherwise, I will most likely fail this quarter. It is my last assignment before I progress to the next level.

The questions I'm following are VERY detailed, and I have had to spend hours going over the poems with a fine-toothed comb. I can provide all of the questions I'm asked, if that would help better with analysis.

Thank you so much in advance!

"Loneliness"

Why can't the stars that shine in the sky
Tell me why I always cry
Whenever the night falls and I'm alone,
And far away from my home

The darkness of the sky is like a tomb,
And resembles my heart in the depths of it's gloom
And the silvery moon answers me from above,
And tells me to return to those I love.

"Stars"

Alone in the night
On a dark hill
With pines around me
Spicy and still,
And a heaven full of stars
Over my head,
White and topaz
And misty red;
Myriads with beating
Hearts of fire
That aeons
Cannot vex or tire
Up the dome of heaven
Like a great hill
I watch them marching
Stately and still,
And I know that I
Am honored to be
Witness of so much majesty.

Question: Which is better?
My answer: "Stars," because I feel that it has more color, expression, and it is much more detailed.

2.-I.) Question: What are the poems' effects of alliteration and assonance?
My answer: The repetitive "i" sound in "Loneliness" mimics crying; the "oo" sound in "Loneliness" is mournful; and in "Stars," there is repetitious "s" sounds, but I'm unsure what they "do" to the poem...

4.-I.) Question: Which poem uses sound better and why?
My answer: "Loneliness," because the sounds mimic the sad, desperate tone.

2.-II.) Question: Do the poems use "metaphors"?
My answer: Yes; "Dome of Heaven" in "Stars"

4.-II.) Question: What effect do the devices in the poem have?
My answer: That part I'm sketchy on...

5.-II.) Question: Which poem makes better use of figurative language?
My answer: They're just about equal; both have similes, and at least one has one reference to a metaphorical term.

3.-III.) Question: Which poem more effectively creates tone?
My answer: "Stars" because of the close observance and detailed, colorful images; the speaker is obviously amazed by the sight; hence, there is an upbeat tone because he/she is clearly delighted.

1., 2., 3.--IV.) Question: What thought is each author conveying? What words/devices are used to create the thought? Which poem gets this idea across better?
My answer: Either loneliness, something to do with nature, or observance.

>4.-II.) Question: What effect do the devices in the poem have?
>My answer: That part I'm sketchy on...

A couple possible responses to this might be:
1. It makes the reader think about the sky in a unique and different way.
2. The dramatic effect of the metaphors gives the reader a clearer impression of the writer's emotional impact at seeing the stars on this particular night.


Les

More metaphors/similes-

sky like a tomb
moon answers me (ie is human)

If I were writing this essay, I would start out by individually analyzing each poem. Then I would move into the compare/contrast stage, and then finish it up with the 'I liked this one best because.....' Keep your phrasing at 'I believe' 'this poem tells me', 'I see it as'- that keeps it as clearly your opinion.

I am not terribly impressed with either of these poems. It's like trying to get a 6 paragraph essay about oatmeal.

pam

Oatmeal----

1. Texture

a. lumps
b. crunch
c. digestibility

2. Food value

a. vitamins
b. fiber
c. carbohydrates
d. calcium

3. Cost

a. cheap
b. cheap
c. cheap


Oatmeal has long been a staple in American diets. Easy to prepare it is one of the finest breakfast foods known to man. There are many reasons to enjoy oatmeal, among these are its digestibility, its food value and its cost.

Many people will recognize oatmeal by the lumps which characterize each bowlful...



Pam, the point here is that any subject can be expanded upon if the OUTLINE and research have been done. There is more than enough information contained in these two poems to provide a 6 paragraph analysis.

Les



Post Edited (08-24-04 23:44)

Question - what is a troll?

Answer - [tinyurl.com]

Hugh,

the link's not working.

pam

Strange. It still works when I click it from here. Lemme try a couple of other methods.

[www.your-poetry.com]

[snipurl.com]

Hugh, what did you do to the snip url site to get booted?

Les

Interesting- it works when I click the long link, but the 'snip' link sends you to a page with this message.

"Nice try but we dont like that!
Powered whit Protector System"

pam

Question: Exactly what relevance do those links have to my questions? Or is this just "off topic"? Just curious. :-)

There is a discussion of "Stars" at Hugh's original link.


Les

Ah! I see. Thanks! :)

Truth be known, I saw the previous post on another site, dated April of this year, where the poster had to have answers for a 'deadline soon'. The same time troubles appear here, almost six months later. Then, this person said s/he was making A's and B's, but was in danger of failing if a passing grade was not achieved on this assignment. Seemed a contradiction.

Lastly, the poems did not seem of sufficiently high quality to be studied at an institution of learning. Alone does not rhyme with home, for example, and it's should not have the apostrophe. Add to that the ragged meter of both works, and I inferred the poster was submitting personal poems, in hopes of getting good reviews.

If I was wrong, it is almost the end of August, so I am due for such an embarrassment. Let me know the real author(s) and I will grovel at some length.

Perhaps it's something like that 'find the title of this poem' assignment for Caliban that shows up once a year or so.

I agree with you on the poems' quality.

pam

Hugh:

Good grief...

"Stars" was written by SARA TEASDALE. I can prove it, too. Run the title in the Google search engine and see for yourself.

The other one is not listed on the Internet. Perhaps you would like to tell my accredited schooling institution that these were written by an amateurs.

I, myself, do not write poetry. I do not care for it. I would not even be here if I did not need help at getting a good grade. I do not have that kind of time on my hands.

Yes, I am a good student. Currently, I have all A's in English. However, I am in danger of failing half of my third quarter if this LAST (poetry) assignment is not done properly. I am a fanatic about good grades. Yes, this assignment was given SIX MONTHS AGO, but, I left it over and decided to take more time to concentrate on it.

By the way, "home and alone," in my text, are both categorized as "approximate rhyme."

Then again, I do not need to explain my educational situation to you. I do not have that time to go into further detail. I came here asking for assistance. Open your mind a bit before jumping to conclusions. It is a pity that someone like me with so many "issues" cannot get any kind of understanding regarding her education, even on the Internet.

I am not sorry that I asked for help; I am, however, sorry that I came here to seek it.

Thank you to those that have been of some assitance. Ciao.



Post Edited (08-27-04 15:55)

Hugh:

Good grief...

"Stars" was written by SARA TEASDALE. I can prove it, too. Run the title in the Google search engine and see for yourself.

The other one is not listed on the Internet. Perhaps you would like to tell my accredited schooling institution that these were written by an amateurs.

I, myself, do not write poetry. I do not care for it. I would not even be here if I did not need help at getting a good grade.

Yes, I am a good student. Currently, I have all A's in English. However, I am in danger of failing half of my third quarter if this poetry assignment is not done properly. I am a fanatic about good grades. This assignment was given SIX MONTHS AGO, but, I left it over and decided to take more time to concentrate on it.

By the way, "home and alone," in my text, are both categorized as "approximate rhyme."

Then again, I do not need to explain my educational situation to you. I do not have that time to go into further detail. I came here asking for assistance. Open your mind a bit before jumping to conclusions. It is a pity that someone like me with so many "issues" cannot get any kind of understanding regarding her education, even on the Internet.

Ciao.

I don't think you are really too far away, you just need to develop your thinking just a little more.


Student05 wrote:

> For English, I am to write a six paragraph,
> comparative essay, based upon my judgment of the better of two
> poems. I am to judge the best from their usage of sound,
> figurative language, tone, and thought.
>
> I maintain A's and B's English overall, and I have
> done well with my other poetry assignment. However, I find this
> particular poetry essay difficult in areas.
>
> I have questions to go by so that I write each
> paragraph in the essay appropriately.
>
> I could really, really use all the help I can get on
> this. I am not asking for answers; maybe just a good "shove" in
> the right directions. Feel free to post here or E-mail me
> (E-mailing is probably best!).
>
> I HAVE to get a passing grade on this. Otherwise, I
> will most likely fail this quarter. It is my last assignment
> before I progress to the next level.
>
> The questions I'm following are VERY detailed, and I
> have had to spend hours going over the poems with a
> fine-toothed comb. I can provide all of the questions I'm
> asked, if that would help better with analysis.
>
> Thank you so much in advance!
>
> "Loneliness"
>
> Why can't the stars that shine in the sky
> Tell me why I always cry
> Whenever the night falls and I'm alone,
> And far away from my home
>
> The darkness of the sky is like a tomb,
> And resembles my heart in the depths of it's gloom
> And the silvery moon answers me from above,
> And tells me to return to those I love.
>
> "Stars"
>
> Alone in the night
> On a dark hill
> With pines around me
> Spicy and still,
> And a heaven full of stars
> Over my head,
> White and topaz
> And misty red;
> Myriads with beating
> Hearts of fire
> That aeons
> Cannot vex or tire
> Up the dome of heaven
> Like a great hill
> I watch them marching
> Stately and still,
> And I know that I
> Am honored to be
> Witness of so much majesty.
>
> Question: Which is better?
> My answer: "Stars," because I feel that it has more color,
> expression, and it is much more detailed.

Only the reader, in this case you, can answer this question. Noting some of the other questions, you might also want to open up to the poetic devices used that sound better, improve the mood. That's assuming that you believe you could say those things about your choice.

> 2.-I.) Question: What are the poems' effects of alliteration
> and assonance?
> My answer: The repetitive "i" sound in "Loneliness" mimics
> crying; the "oo" sound in "Loneliness" is mournful; and in
> "Stars," there is repetitious "s" sounds, but I'm unsure what
> they "do" to the poem...

Also 'a' sounds, can't, stars, that in the first line of Loneliness and the excellent misty red myriads in Stars. White and topaz also. Night, hill, pines.

Do they make the poem sound better, more compelling? Do the sounds match the mood?


> 4.-I.) Question: Which poem uses sound better and why?
> My answer: "Loneliness," because the sounds mimic the sad,
> desperate tone.

Again, that has to be your choice. If that is how it works for you, then so long as you explain it sensibly I don't see how you can be wrong. Excellent critics often disagree about what makes one poem better than another. It is not arithemetic, there is not a single solution. Each reader has their own, and sometimes more than one.

>
> 2.-II.) Question: Do the poems use "metaphors"?
> My answer: Yes; "Dome of Heaven" in "Stars"

Also, I doubt that your heart resembles the night sky. The stars do not beat like hearts as implied in Stars. Stars also do not march up hills.
>
> 4.-II.) Question: What effect do the devices in the poem have?
> My answer: That part I'm sketchy on...

Go back to my response above, how do they lead you, the reader, into the poem, if, in fact, they do. Does the descriptiveness reach something that you can understand from your own experience? Can you empathize with the poet more easily, understand their message better becasue of the various devices?

> 5.-II.) Question: Which poem makes better use of figurative
> language?
> My answer: They're just about equal; both have similes, and at
> least one has one reference to a metaphorical term.

For me, Stars would be the better. I would argue it makes better use of alliteration, assonance and metaphor. You may see it differently, it is your argument that matters, not mine.

> 3.-III.) Question: Which poem more effectively creates tone?
> My answer: "Stars" because of the close observance and
> detailed, colorful images; the speaker is obviously amazed by
> the sight; hence, there is an upbeat tone because he/she is
> clearly delighted.

Good answer.

>
> 1., 2., 3.--IV.) Question: What thought is each author
> conveying? What words/devices are used to create the thought?
> Which poem gets this idea across better?
> My answer: Either loneliness, something to do with nature, or
> observance.

Other than the single reference to being alone on the hill at the beginning of Stars, I don't get the feeling that the poem is discussing loneliness, but the 'majesty' of the stars in the night sky. It describes the mood well and uses good metaphors and word imagery to achieve what I believe to be its goal.

Loneliness seems to me to take a different tack to the night sky. It is gloomy and sadness is provoked when night falls.

My answer, again, is that Stars achieves its result more effectively.

Hope this helps,

Chesil

Thank you so much! I agree; "Stars" is best. I plan to use your suggestions as a help in my final essay. Right now, I just have an old one that I found in my files. It needs updating...

I hope that you will not mind, but I wanted to show someone my (almost) final "product," so I sent the essay I have written to the E-mail address found on your member information link. I wasn't sure about posting it up publicly on here...



Post Edited (08-29-04 14:21)

I got it and replied, I hope I have been helpful.

Chesil

>The other one is not listed on the Internet ...

Well, I am almost prepared to grovel. Are you saying they are both by Sara Teasdale? In the interim, I will start preparing my 'mea maxima culpa' speech.

I know it is over 2 months since this was posted, but I just got to this site b/c I was looking to see if these poems were "real". I too, have the same 2 poems, but they are part of the curriculum for a Special Services student (special needs, learning disability, etc) in the 10th grade as the Third Quarter Poetry Test. I am his teacher and his parent. I homeschool. This poetry test counts as 80% of his English grade for the third quarter. I would not have chosen these two "unknown" pieces, but I have no choice. Just wanted to let you know.

I am doing an analysis on the song "The Dangling Conversation" by Simon and Garfunkel, and I am having trouble with line eight, "You can hear the ocean roar". Please help me.

1. It's a still life water color,
2. Of a now late afternoon,
3. As the sun shines through the curtained lace
4. And shadows wash the room.
5. And we sit and drink our coffee
6. Couched in our indifference,
7. Like shells upon the shore
8. You can hear the ocean roar
9. In the dangling conversation
10. And the superficial sighs,
11. Are the borders of our lives.

12. And you read your Emily Dickinson,
13. And I my Robert Frost,
14. And we note our place with bookmarkers
15. That measure what we've lost.
16. Like a poem poorly written
17. We are verses out of rhythm,
18. Couplets out of rhyme,
19. In syncopated time
20. Lost in the dangling conversation
21. And the superficial sighs,
22. Are the borders of our lives.

23. Yes, we speak of things that matter,
24. With words that must be said,
25. "Can analysis be worthwhile?"
26. "Is the theater really dead?"
27. And how the room is softly faded
28. And I only kiss your shadow,
29. I cannot feel your hand,
30. You're a stranger now unto me
31. Lost in the dangling conversation.
32. And the superficial sighs,
33. In the borders of our lives.

Thanks,
Chloe'

Chloe, you have to take the lines 7-9 together to make sense of the phrase:

Like shells upon the shore
You can hear the ocean roar
In the dangling conversation


Supposedly one can hear the sound of the ocean when he puts his ear to a conch shell, it has a muffled rumbling like voices from a farther room.


Les

Thanks Les. That helps, but the assignment is to do it line by line, and this is what i have for line 7: "The poet is telling the reader that that couple is bored with each other. He uses simile by comparing shells on a shore to people; when a shell is washed up on a shore it has been used and thrown away. Also, the shells are just lying there, monotonous, lifeless." I just don't see that working together???

-chloe'

Chloe,

The roaring could be adding to the monotony- the couple isn't hearing each other's words, but just a meaningless noise.

pam

Chloe, I'm sure your instructor will allow you to put the line in its context. The author clearly intended for the listener to "hear" the sound within the shells.


Les



Post Edited (11-17-04 14:32)

Thank you both, but I do have another question. In line 10, "And the superficial sighs," what could the sighs symbolize in the couple's relationship?
-chloe'

I might have something. This is what i came up with:
�And the superficial sighs,�-
They sigh obviously as if they are tired of one another. For example: A mother is correcting her teenage son/daughter for the millionth time, and he/she lets out a �superficial sigh�. In the couple�s relationship the sighs might symbolize conflicts they have had.

�Are the borders of our lives.�-
Borders control things; if the sighs symbolize conflicts, the poet could be saying their conflicts control their lives. He uses metaphor to point out that the sighs or conflicts are borders.

-Chloe'