I need help to locate a poem called Limbo by this author. My daughter needs to research it for her homework. All info appreciated.

The poem is still in copyright, so unlikely to be on the web. At least I couldn't find it. Why don't you try a library? A university library with a literature deparment should have it, and you can just make a copy then.

You could also search in books on Carribean literature/poetry.

Read the part about him here for some background:
[www.mcauley.acu.edu.au]

In my school there is a book called an anthology, which has this poem in it, if you want, i will post it here

Yes please.

Stephen

Any info please, especially on "Limbo".

I need some information on Kamau Braithwaite's background and his poetry. Can you help me?

There are some book reviews containing biographical info. on Braithwaite here:

[vault1.secured-url.com] />
And a short biographical sketch and bibliography here:

[www.mcauley.acu.edu.au] />

Les

hi i need some information on Edward Brathwaite, his background and recurring themes in Rights of passage.
Thank you

Did you follow the links mentioned above? If you cannot see them, click on Flat View.

you can find this on the www.bbc.co.uk and go to the GCSE bitesize

[tinyurl.com]

Here's some info on The poem limbo by edward kamau braithwaite

Edward Kamau Brathwaite: Limbo

This poem tells the story of slavery in a rhyming, rhythmic dance. It is ambitious and complex. There are two narratives running in parallel:
· the actions of the dance, and
· the history of a people which is being enacted.
Going down and under the limbo stick is likened to the slaves' going down into the hold of the ship, which carries them into slavery. In Roman Catholic tradition, limbo is a place to which the souls of people go, if they are not good enough for heaven or bad enough for hell, between which limbo lies; it has come to mean any unpleasant place, or a state (of mind or body) from which it is difficult to escape. The story of slavery told in the poem is very easy to follow, yet full of vivid detail and lively action.
The poem has a very strong beat, suggesting the dance it describes: where the word limbo appears as a complete line, it should be spoken slowly, the first syllable extended and both syllables stressed: Lím-bó. While the italics give the refrain (or chorus) which reminds us of the dance, the rest of the poem tells the story enacted in the dance: these lines are beautifully rhythmic, and almost every syllable is stressed, until the very last line, where the rhythm is broken, suggesting the completion of the dance, and the end of the narrative.

This poem is suited to dramatic performance - there is the dancing under the limbo pole (difficult for most Europeans) and the acting out of the voyage into slavery. The poem can be chanted or sung, with a rhythmic accompaniment to bring out the drama in it (percussion, generally, is appropriate but drums, specifically, are ideal: in fact, the text refers to the “drummer” and the “music”).

Limbo is not a place for those too good for hell, too bad for heaven!! It is for the unbaptised, those who never had the opportunity to declare for God. It is not a place of torment.

And don't confuse it with purgatory, which is an antechamber to heaven, where souls who do not yet feel ready to be in the presence of God are allowed to wait (even though God would prefer them to come in and be fully happy.)

I've just studied limbo at school for my anthology work...
I was getting really annoyed today because i couldn't stop singing 'limbo limbo like me'

limbo has a few meaning in the poem...

limbo as in the dance (under a poll)
the state of confusion of people with a language barrier travelling thousands of miles across the ocean
and the place in hell reserved for people like babies who died before being baptised.

Limbo the dance name must be related to limber meaning supple, as in limbering up before exercise, surely?

Some dictionaries I saw said 'likely of African origin', but one said:

Etymology: 1950s: from Jamaican English limba to bend.

S.O.D. (third edition, revised, with addenda) of course doesn't include it.

i need the poem limbo for my gcses any help would be appreciated! thanks

Try a library- it's not available online.

pam

I have lost my annotated poem of limbo!! oops can any1 tell me wots it bout? i cant remeber is it 2 do with the dance? asap
Sar

if you go to this web adress you will find all the information you need on the limbo poem by edward kamau braithwaite.
www.shunsley.eril.net/armoore/anthology/differentcultures.htm just want ed to help as it took me three hours to find it
hope it helps you with your work samantha hutton

Except the poem itself, that is.

iv got an english exam the morn and i need some infoprmation on limbo! somebody plz xx

Sure. But first, you need to post the poem so we can read it. And type it out carefully, please.

Stephen

Nice try Stephen, I'm dying to read it myself.

Les

this is the poem, in full. i'm not breaking any copyright laws or anything am i? i odn't intend to. i'll take it off if i am.

And limbo stick is the silence in front of me

limbo
limbo like me
limbo
limbo like me

long dark night is the silence in front of me
limbo
limbo like me

stick hit sound
and the ship like it ready

stick hit sound
and the dark still steady

limbo
limbo like me

long dark deck and the water surrounding me
long dark deck and the silence is over me

limbo
limbo like me

stick is the whip
and the dark deck is slavery

stick is the whip and the dark deck is slavery

limbo limbo like me

drum stick knock
and the darkness is over me

knees spread wide
and the water is hiding me

limbo
limbo like me

knees spread wide
and the dark ground is under me

down
down
down

and the drummer os calling me

limbo
limbo like me

sun coming up
and the drummers are praising me

out of the dark
and the dumb gods are raising me

up
up
up

and the music is saving me

hot
slow
step

on the burning ground


the written poem doesn't do justice to the recorded version of Brathwaite singing it, i'm trying to find a copy of the sung version, it sends shivers down my spine.
anyone know where i can find an mp3 of it or anything?

P.S.
it's Brathwaite, not Braithwaite. or atleast that's what it says on the bottom of my copy of the poem.

Much obliged. Yes, technically a copyright violation, but I will pay your lawyers should you be sued for damages, thanks.

I've now read it, and I hear it in my head with a strong Jamaican accent and almost as song

From a number of anthologies and a Google search I was fairly certain that Braithwaite is the right spelling, but then a Google search for Edward Kamau Brathwaite yields just as many hits about the same person. Very confusing! Is it a Caribbean thing?

Google makes it 227 to 658 braith to brath, so the aths have it. Motion carried.

He stepped on a rock
and broke his ....
and now he's doing
the Limbo Rock

Glock? Schlock? Wok? Nah, then it would be the Rimbo Rock.

Be vewy vewy qwiet....i'm taking pwozac...hehehehehehe

It is a poem about the slave conditions of africa in the past. The poem refers to the 'limbo dance', going down and under the limbo stick is likened to the slaves' going down into the hold of the ship, which carries them into slavery. Limbo is also in the roman catholic religion, meaning the place between heaven and hell, if put into limbo, the person is not good enough for heaven, but also not bad enough for hell. Limbo is often reffered to as an extremely unpleasent place. The poem is basically about the slave conditions, and the story of the slave trade of black people - they are being taken to be slaves for the white people in england/america.

Another way of seeing it is that the limbo dance was created to help the black people loosen up their backs etc. after being stored below deck in cramped unpleasent conditions. The poem shows the rhythm of the limbo dance, but also refers to the stages and events of the journey from Africa (the black peoples homes) to America where they will be forced to work as house hold slaves.

NO, limbo is not a place between heaven and hell for those not fit for either, its for the unbaptised (mostly babies who died at birth and prechristian pagans who had no opportunity to hear the gospel) and lies at the outer edge of hell.

Have you noticed how there is more being published about the north African slave raids on Europe which continued until the eighteenth centuary?

Yes, Limbo is not Purgatory !

Imagine my confusion as a small child learning about Limbo the spiritual realm and Limbo the dance and thinking them the same somehow.

Pagan babies going under limbo stick.

then again, I thought Hail Mary was full of Grapes !

And "most highly flavoured gravy, gloria"

Don't forget Round John Virgin, and Holy Vincent !

Hello, please i need tips on rights of passage and not limbo. Thanks

You may have to post it. I can only find a fragment on line:

[www.kirjasto.sci.fi]

okay, brathwaite scholars..
can anyone tell me where the phrase "crossing the river" (or the idea) is in Brathwaite's works? It is the title of a novel by Carryl Phillips who said he got the title from Brathwaite. Can't find it....

This poem by Harriet Beecher Stowe, who wrote Uncle Tom's Cabin may be relevant, since Brathwaite's message is the antithesis of this:

ELIZA CROSSING THE RIVER

by: Harriet Beecher Stowe (1811-1896)

FROM her resting-place by the trader chased,
Through the winter evening cold,
Eliza came with her boy at last,
Where a broad deep river rolled.

Great blocks of the floating ice were there,
And the water's roar was wild,
But the cruel trader's step was near,
Who would take her only child.

Poor Harry clung around her neck,
But a word he could not say,
For his very heart was faint with fear,
And with flying all that day.

Her arms about the boy grew tight,
With a loving clasp, and brave;
"Hold fast! Hold fast, now, Harry dear,
And it may be God will save."

From the river's bank to the floating ice
She took a sudden bound,
And the great block swayed beneath her feet
With a dull and heavy sound.

So over the roaring rushing flood,
From block to block she sprang,
And ever her cry for God's good help
Above the waters rang.

And God did hear that mother's cry,
For never an ice-block sank;
While the cruel trader and his men
Stood wondering on the bank.

A good man saw on the further side,
And gave her his helping hand;
So poor Eliza, with her boy,
Stood safe upon the land.

A blessing on that good man's arm,
On his house, and field, and store;
May he never want a friendly hand
To help him to the shore!

A blessing on all that make such haste,
Whatever their hands can do!
For they that succor the sore distressed,
Our Lord will help them too.

My guess is that the term "crossing the river" refers to being sold into slavery.

Les

Or escaping out of slavery into a free state.

There's one more river, and that's the River of Jordan,
There's one more river, one more river to cross.
Trad

Hi, have you found the the Brathwaite text Phillips borrowed "Crossing the River" from? I've been hunting it as well .- without success so far!
Antje.

Brathwaite's book The Arrivants is split into sections and parts. Part V within the Masks section is called Crossing the River.

Stephen

Hi Stephen, thanks for the information!!! Not knowing anything much about Brathwraite and having asked the previous question because I have to prepare a talk on Caryl Phillips (at extremely short notice!!!) I have one more question concerning the "meaning" of "crossing the river" in Brathwaite's work. It's been suggested above that it means being sold into or freed from slavery. In Caryl Phillips' novel it is supposed to refer to the Atlantic and has of course to do with the slave trade. Then there are the obvious metaphorical implications that come with the the words "crossing" and "river" but really, is there a more specific point that Brathwaite makes in his poems? Since Phillips consciously choose to borrow that phrase/title from Brathwaite I'd really like to at least point out the "right" connection.
Thanks for your help. I look forward to reading from you again!
Antje.

To answer that, I'm going to have to get the book. Trouble is, I'm not back at University till next Monday. I will see if they still have it - I recall reading it there a couiple of years ago and I think they'll still have a copy. Hang on to your hat.

Stephen

Hi Stephen, thanks for your help again! By now I have read a little more on Phillips and found in one interview, that he was actually surprised to have been "found out", as it were, to have borrowed the title from Brathwaite - not such a conscious decision after all!!! (Crisscrossing the River: An Interview with Caryl Phillips. Ariel, Vol.25, No4, October, 1994, pp91-99. CM Davidson:"...lo and behold, I discovered that Chapter 5 is entitled "Crossing the River". C.Phillips: "Is it? I know him. He's going to murder me. Is it really? I'm going to write that down. That's probably where I got the original title because I first thought of this title 10 or 11 years ago".)

But still, I'd like to hear more about Brathwaite - our library doesn't hold anything on him and it's a little late for an inter-library loan for my talk (on Monday). I'm tickled now, though and might just have found a new field of interest...
So, no rush but I still looke forward to hearing about it!
Thanks again, Antje.

are you sure that this poem is about slaves?
my teacher says it is about people going down to hell?
please tell me who is right?

holly

Then how does your teacher explain
"Sun come up
And the drummers are praising me"

Unless s/he is saying that the speaker in the poem is Christ. If the poem isn't slavery then it can only be dancing the limbo.

You do know about limbo dancing, don't you?

And as I've said in the thread above, limbo is not part of hell.

@ Linda & Holly,
it is a little difficult in this thread to be sure of who is answereing whose question. Anyhow, I was at no point refering to "Limbo" at all. My questions and "statements" refer only to Brathwaite's and Phillip's work in general!
Antje.

Antje, if you click on threaded view you can get some idea of who is replying specifically to which post. That is if we remembered to click Reply to this Message in stead of just replying in general.

I was replying to Holly who seems to be following on from the begining when the thread was about Limbo as this is the poem on the syllabus.

I don't believe Plillips borrowed from Braithwaite at all, I think it was a vertical influence from their common heritage rather than horizonital from each other.

Crossing the river has been a metaphor for going to the promised land for centuries. You only have to look at Bunyan's Pilgrim's Progress to see its use in literature. And with the identification of the black slaves with the children of Israel in bondage in Egypt, you also have their crossing of the River Jordan dryshod under Joshua having meaning for escaping slaves crossing boundary rivers into free states

I know nothing of either writer beyond what I have read in this topic, but it seems more likely to me that they are both independently drawing on history.

Phillips admitted to borrowing the TITLE from Brathwaite:
[www.thecaribbeanwriter.com] /> But yes, I agree, their influences were the same and the result equally so.

Stephen

right then this is the address u lot need for limbo... www.universalteacher.org.uk/anthology/differentcultures.htm then click on his poem... good luck

I need anyimfoon this poem please send backsombodymylife is at risk being deadyly serious

Anthony, if 'Limbo' is the poem you mean, read the information in the earlier posts in this thread. Easiest to do if you first click on Flat View near the top of this page. Then scroll up.

hey...
thanks a lot you dont know how much you've helped me......
no other site showed me anything about Limbo and i've got an A*
...and its all because of you people
melanie,

hello all. well i am from the caribbean and therefore studying brathwaite at university comes naturally. i wasjust wondering...does anyone think that he was ashamed of his caribbean background in "the arrivants"? wasjust wondering.
Resha

Resha i wouldn't use the word 'shame' i think he is trying to awaken and pay more attention to his African heritage. He seems most happy when he wrote about Africa and even at that he did not deny being a Caribbean.
I'm working on 'The Arrivants' for my long essay project,so i need any form of information or sites i can get info from.
I get confused when he changes roles especially in the same poem.

Is his name Braithwaite or Brathwaite?

Brathwaite, Edward K.

[tinyurl.com]

Google biography places him as a Barbadian. Jamaican's have too many famous people already

Edward Kamau Brathwaite: Limbo
This poem tells the story of slavery in a rhyming, rhythmic dance. It is ambitious and complex. There are two narratives running in parallel:
the actions of the dance, and
the history of a people which is being enacted.
Going down and under the limbo stick is likened to the slaves' going down into the hold of the ship, which carries them into slavery. In Roman Catholic tradition, limbo is a place to which the souls of people go, if they are not good enough for heaven or bad enough for hell, between which limbo lies; it has come to mean any unpleasant place, or a state (of mind or body) from which it is difficult to escape. The story of slavery told in the poem is very easy to follow, yet full of vivid detail and lively action.
The poem has a very strong beat, suggesting the dance it describes: where the word limbo appears as a complete line, it should be spoken slowly, the first syllable extended and both syllables stressed: Lím-bó. While the italics give the refrain (or chorus) which reminds us of the dance, the rest of the poem tells the story enacted in the dance: these lines are beautifully rhythmic, and almost every syllable is stressed, until the very last line, where the rhythm is broken, suggesting the completion of the dance, and the end of the narrative.

This poem is suited to dramatic performance - there is the dancing under the limbo pole (difficult for most Europeans) and the acting out of the voyage into slavery. The poem can be chanted or sung, with a rhythmic accompaniment to bring out the drama in it (percussion, generally, is appropriate but drums, specifically, are ideal: in fact, the text refers to the “drummer” and the “music”).
What do you find interesting in
the way the poem appears on the page
sound effects in the poem
repetition in the poem
the way the limbo dance tells the story of slavery
Is this a serious or comic poem? Is it optimistic or pessimistic?

Limbo - meaning?
Roots of culture (ripped away from culture)
Movement of ship/boat (up and down)
Test of endurance and strength
Movement below deck (up on deck for exercise and then back under - continuous)
Religious idea
Test of who will make it and not
Heaven and hell / purgatory

The poem is in 1st person narrative which makes it closer to the audience. Trustworthy and reliable.

There is no punctuation except the full stop at the end which suggests the end of all slavery; the dance; movement.

Use of alliteration which is depressing - suggests doom (d,d,d). Foreboding. This is used through repletion which emphasizes the message.

“down…down…down” This may suggest the drum beat.

At the start there is a lot of repletion of the chorus which portrays the feeling of the dance.
Chorus fades out at the end which may suggest loss of identity - “branded” by the slave traders.

There are determiners emitted which contributes to the rhythm

hi, i am studyting the poems of cluster one in the aqa anthology for my gcse's but from what i have read about limbo being like halfway 2 heaven n hell (i dont know where that has come from btw) i noticed that none of this is what we were taught in lesson. i know that when my teacher marks my work he will think OR KNOW morelike that it is copied from the internet but the thing is i agree aabout this. neways i have mocks 2moro on this subject and i dnt know which poems i will have 2 write about yet but i hope its limbo cos i liked it very much!

Can anyone help with how i have to explain the quotations?

x x x love ya x x x

Stefan, you appear to have copied the first part of your interesting comments from wwffansmh's post of 24 Feb 04, or perhaps you are both copying from the same source.

If you refer to a good dictionary, you'll see it's not accurate to say that 'in Roman Catholic tradition limbo is a place to which the souls of people go, if they are not good enough for heaven or bad enough for hell, between which limbo lies'. The Shorter Oxford English Dictionary says it's a region supposed in some Christian church beliefs to exist on the border of Hell as the abode of infants who died unbaptised and of 'the just' who died before Christ's coming. Linda got that right in her posts above. The SOED also gives other, colloquial meanings of 'limbo', going back to the mid-17th Century, as an unfavourable place or condition of neglect or oblivion, or an intermediate or indeterminate condition, or a state of inaction or inattention pending some future event.

I can't see anything in Brathwaite's poem to suggest that he was writing about limbo in the religious sense. It's certainly not a poem about people going to hell. There's no reference, even symbolically, to Christ. Most obviously his poem refers to and evokes the rhythm of the Caribbean solo dance known as the limbo, in which the dancer manoeuvers, knees first and face upwards, under a low horizontal bar or stick.

I don't know whether that dance originated as a way of enacting a story of slavery, or (what seems much more likely) as just a way of showing off prodigious physicality - like the Cossacks do when they leap around. As Linda and Hugh have pointed out in their posts above, the name of the dance probably comes from 'limber' or from Jamaican dialect 'limba', not from 'limbo' as defined in the OED.

Nevertheless in the context of the dictionary meanings of 'limbo', and the physical movements of the dancer, Brathwaite is able to treat the dance, described in the poem as performed on the deck of a ship, as symbolizing the experience of people who were transported by ship into slavery and later became free or at least dreamed of liberation by their efforts.

It seems a gross exaggeration (perhaps in danger of being passed from one uncritical student to another!) to say that Brathwaite's poem tells 'in vivid detail' the story of the slave trade or the history of a people. What it does - clearly deliberately and as a most important part of the poem - is to evoke a little of what we know or imagine about such things, while evoking the music of the dance. The mention of 'ship', and the mentions (twice) of 'whip' and 'slavery', are enough to steer the reader's imagination in that direction.

In line with the concept of limbo as an uncomfortable in-between state, the dancer is described as being in-between in various ways: between the silence of a long dark night and the sound of the stick; between the long dark deck and the sea ('water'); between the long dark deck and silence above; between the stick, asserted to be a 'whip' symbol, and the dark deck of 'slavery'; and between the 'darkness ... over me' and the 'dark ground ... under me'.

The first part of the poem has many references to darkness. The last part of the poem refers to sunrise and being 'out of the dark'. Thus Brathwaite treats the difficult progression of the dancer edging with widespread knees under the stick as a symbol of moving out of darkness into light and liberation.

The dancer's efforts are called for and encouraged by the drummers. His success is greeted with the 'sun coming up', and the praise of the drummers, and (as he becomes erect again) the feeling of being lifted up by whatever gods may be, and of being saved by music, and of being strong enough even to walk through fire ('on the burning ground'). Or perhaps that last reference is just to being able to walk unhurried on the sun-warmed ground, compared with the 'dark ground' referred to earlier. The unshaded earth or sand soon becomes burning hot for bare feet in the tropics.

Ian



Post Edited (12-13-04 23:04)

Ian, as a Catholic there are two common confusions that really irritate. One is mixing up limbo and purgatory (by the way, the church has said that limbo doesn't exist). The other is thinking that the Immaculate Conception is the same as the virgin birth.

Katy, what quotations are you referring to?

That stuff about being 'halfway 2 heaven n hell' isn't correct (see my last post), so I'm not surprised it's not what you were taught in class.

Btw, what does 'mocks' mean? I'm not up with all the modern expressions,

Ian

Must say I haven't really had to consider the distinction, though there obviously is one. A virgin birth must imply an immaculate conception, but not vice versa.

I'm witcha Ian, but,


Pope Pius IX finally solved this problem by introducing the doctrine of the "Immaculate Conception" in his Bull Ineffabilis:

"...We declare, pronounce and define that the doctrine which asserts that the Blessed Virgin Mary, from the first moment of her conception, by a singular grace and privilege of almighty God, and in view of the merits of Jesus Christ, Savior of the human race, was preserved free from every stain of original sin is a doctrine revealed by God and, for this reason, must be firmly and constantly believed by all the faithful."


Means that Mary was without sin at the time of conception, I'm guessing.

Mocks are mock exams, set by the school (usually using last year's questions) to give students practice in sitting a public exam. That way the spacing of exam desks and patrolling invigilators don't come as a surprise. And they get some idea of how well they might do in the real thing later in the year.

The Immaculate Conception - all humans have a tendency to sin, they are also born with sin inherited from Adam (original sin). Baptism washes all previous sin, including original, away so that you get a fresh start. So its as if Mary was baptised before she was conceived so she never had original sin but was pure from the begining.

Thanks for all your help. this is the first time ive used the site but it helped with my understanding of the poem !!!!!

Can anyone tell me when Limbo was written. Any other information will be appreciated

Limbo was written quite recently, so it was not in the time of the slave trade!

I need a copy of 'Limbo' by Brathwaite, but I have no idea which book it's in????

My local bookshop hasn't got any Barathwaite and I have had no luck on-line.

My email is: godstuff7474@hotmail.com and anyone who has a copy of 'limbo', PLEASE email me the title of the book so I can get a copy!!
Thank you thank you
PS Please!!!
Lizzie

Click on Flat View at the bottom of this thread and all the posts will be visible on one long page. The text of Limbo is about the twenty sixth post down from the top.

Or if you have contacts in a British secondary school it may be in the English GCSE anthology. Or try looking in the exam revision guides you can get in bookshops.

The slave trade was abolished in 1807, do you think the bicentenary will be celebrated in two years time?

Slavery itself was not abolished until 1833, so any celebrations may wait until then.

Slavery itself was not abolished until 1833 ...

Much later in some places. Still survives even today in others, yep.

yer im doing that iv got to find the meaning of the poem but i didnt get the extract from the antology book

hello.. i think im in luv with edward....... i mean in luv wid his peoem's ...lol..if u get what i mean..

pleases help me by aswering the questions below..thankyou

1. what two lines from the poem describe the journey from africa to america?

2. short phrases that seem to suggesr the suffereing of the people who were taken to be slaves.

3. how comes at the beginnning of the poem it starts of bad and negative , however towards the end becomes positive. why could this be?

thankyou very much...pleases help me by answering my questions with depth.

Yours sincerly

phavandeep hansra

Not responsive to your queries, but note also the dimensions of the holds where slaves were kept in the ships - less than four feet high in most cases, and usually closer to three! This could be a reason for the limbo dance as well?

[www.eyewitnesstohistory.com] />
"The space between decks was divided into two compartments 3 feet 3 inches high; the size of one was 16 feet by 18 and of the other 40 by 21; into the first were crammed the women and girls, into the second the men and boys: 226 fellow creatures were thus thrust into one space 288 feet square and 336 into another space 800 feet square, giving to the whole an average Of 23 inches and to each of the women not more than 13 inches."