I believed the lies
Who wouldn't want to

So I spoke truth
Separating myself from the world

Now I know
Time to play

Percy,

Strange, isn't it, what puts us into play? The lies that pass for the rules of the game. Like the lie of the even playing field. Or the lie that people actually know what they are doing. Or the other lie that they don't know what they are actually doing. But we end up playing, no matter what we know
...or don't.

Peter

So I spoke truth
Separating myself from the world


A bit immodest, I'd say.

Joe

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/25/2009 07:04AM by hpesoj.

Well, can't say I didn't try. Let's hope I can leave it better than I found it, shall we?


hpesoj,

Immodest? And the religious who say they know the absolute nature of reality? Immodest? No, hpoesoj, to be immodest in this world, I would have to say I were a god. No, no, that's been done. I'd have to say I am the god of gods. Kind of like Zeus? No, he's the father of gods. No, wait, was that Prometheus? Shit, no, that can't be it. Ra? Em', either way I'm gonna have to try harder.

Percival you have a knack of trying to make something out of nothing. Let us know when this knack becomes profitable.

Les

Just effing with you, Percy...I really shouldn't but you're such an easy target that sometimes, I just can't resist.

Joe

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/26/2009 08:03AM by hpesoj.

Les,

And you a talent for making nothing of something. You can start pretending you know something when you hold your own in a conversation. Until then, try to comprehend the meaning of "burden of proof".



hpesoj,

If you disagree, speak up.

Percival, you just proved that you love to argue, nothing else.

As to the poem, the language is direct which I believe is an improvement over some of your earlier ramblings, but your references are vague which leaves the reader wondering what the heck you're talking about.

Les

Argue? No. Discuss. A single man can hole up, be surrounded by his owns lies. Telling himself he's correct, seeking no contradictory evidence, he will stay in those lies. Me, my greatest strength is that I don't trust myself. I'm not satisfied when I think I'm right. So I want more knowledge, opinions, perspectives, to test, TEST, my ideas. My point? Some argue to feel right. Some discuss to be right.

As to the poem. To me it seems quite evident. Many people feel that the only way to get along with others is to lie, to manipulate, so on. Not only that, some people lie to many people, through their own ignorance or otherwise, and further complicate things. A lot of those lies make a person unprepared for the reality of things. Now, me, I disagree with that way. Nevertheless, I am outnumbered.

My point? Some argue to feel right. Some discuss to be right.

And some argue just to hear themselves talk.


Les

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/29/2009 04:15AM by les712.

And these mysterious people you allude to, I imagine they are unaware of the greatest benefit of conversation. That is, learning from the experiences and perspectives of others. We can learn the basics, such as trades and other bodies of thought in far less time than it would take to learn it by yourself. Then there's the more complex things, philosophies and such, which no matter how wrong, often shed some form of light on the truth of things. I love to watch psychopaths just going about their business, from a safe distance of course, as their exaggerated states of mind, in normal people less evident, make identifying the mental processes far easier.

All this talk reminds me of a quote. How did it go though.. "People hate those who show them their inadequacies." Which I suppose is true. But it's kind of a head-scratcher to me. I mean, wouldn't a person want to know their faults, so they could improve themselves?

I mean, wouldn't a person want to know their faults, so they could improve themselves?


Do fat people look in mirrors? I've discussed religion and politics with aequaintances who never alter their views. Though their thinking may be faulty, other people's insight into a matter does little to foster real change.


Les

Les,

Contrary-wise, I now add cinnamon to my coffee when I brew it, something I never heard of till two months ago.

Cheers,

Peter

Peter, certainly we learn from others, but conversation seldom does the trick for those whose minds will not be changed.


Les

Well put Les. That bit about fatties is my very point. But look close now, this bag of tricks is quite deep. Humanity's strength, which pulled it from the shit and dirt, now, in an age of information, is it's weakness. Imagination sweetheart, imagination. Planning, calculation so intricate and precise it borders on hallucination, that's what got us off the ground. Before civilization, there was no need for a safeguard, there's no debating the reality of being chased by a mass of fur, teeth, and claw. Of lost limbs, starvation, infection, freezing cold, sickening wet. Always something of reality to keep the mind busy. Keep it on track, to it's purpose.

But now we've got luxury, time, so much food that people die from being fat, and everything handed to us. All that time Les, all that time. What do you suppose a mind built for high-speed, intricate calculation does with all the time? You suppose it just shuts down? Just goes to sleep, waiting? How many generations you think it took to produce you, how many billions of lifeforms lead to you? You think a the few hundred generations born to civilization just shook all those instincts?

No. The animal is driven to find the best situation for itself. And only recently has it had time to lie to itself. Only recently has it discovered a flaw in it's own makeup.

And on that note, fuck you. Don't you try your snide undercutting bullshit on me. I could work my way so deep through your mind I'll have you thinking my cock is the fountain of youth. Only let your keep your lies as rending requires crossing moral boundaries, that unlike you, I refuse to stoop to. If you ever cross the line, I'll take pleasure in seeing how fast I can break you.

Dream on Percival, you've been playing too many video games.


Les

Dream, you say? What is a dream but a series of random, unconnected thoughts and feelings? It's funny you'd use that very term. For while I consistently offer you empirical evidence, defined to the best of my ability, you offer me nothing. You simply say your ideas are correct, and expect me to bow before you. And then you penalize me with your naughty words when I disobey. Now, if I went about acting in this manner, expecting others to instantaneously agree, punishing those who did not, what would you think of me?

Or would you think of that at all? Wouldn't you rather see the sunrise? A nice rain? Yes, those things are far more pleasant than thinking a vast majority of your life was spent chasing a lie. Would you even bother to find the truth if you began to doubt? Think for a minute man. Think. Am I doing this for a rise? Or do I think you'll be a better man going my way? And does that thought excuse my attempting to convert you?

Isn't life a gas?

Dave Gardner used to tell of James Lewis sitting with his guitar. He was strumming an off chord without any change in fingering. He said to James Lewis "Other guys move their fingers around and make different notes when they's playin' the guitar" James Lewis responded, "Yup, I know that, they are lookin' for it, but I've found it"

Have a nice day James

Alright I'm gonna clear the air here. If you have something to say, say it. All I care about is that you stay close enough to the point, and be direct. If I wanted to have aimless small talk I'd wander into a fucking hallmark. If I wanted half-truths I'd find a church. If I wanted thinly masked insults I'd find an ivy league college. If I wanted vagaries I'd be a god damned politician. Talk to me like a fucking man.

OK,, you happily accuse everyone else in the known universe of being mindless, unless they agree with your myoptic view. You are the only one who has the truth, and it is indesputable. You have posted yourself as the most intelligent person in the world at this time. You offer no proof, but demand others do. You condemn thoughts and beliefs of others, but offer no alternitive. You tell me I am a moron, because I belive in God, but you will not tell me how you came to the conclusion, oh excuse me, THE TRUth that there is no God.
As I said above, if you had enough command of the English language without vulgarity to understand it, your "mind" is closed, you have the truth, and the rest of us are wandering in the desert of ignorance.

Just a minor point, I have been in touch with others from the forum who have left it beccause of you and your ignorant approach to people. I used to refuse to join them, but you win. I am gone, until you are.

Do the world a favor, Mr. Urine, go somewhere unobtrusive and die.

Quote:

les712
People have asked why I refuse to post on a rave, generally speaking some people just want to argue.

Les

Quote:

petersz
I refuse to leave the forum just because one or to people use it to vent. I vent my opinions and emotions primarily within my poems. I also refuse to play mind games with anyone.

Peter

Merc,

You're a fucking idiot. For one, I don't give a shit. You're not my child, that game won't work on me. Two, I usually keep to my own threads. When I happen to wander into those of others, any number of people are usually involved in the conversation, often times the thread host. No one has ever asked me to leave their thread, not once. All that aside, how hard is it to ignore my posts, my replies? Is there some fucking celestial force demanding that you do?

Anyhow. I'll be waiting, assuming you eventually swallow your pride, to respond to those sentences that resembled attempts at conversation.



Les,

You could just sit there pretending you're right, or you could prove me wrong.



Peter,

Please don't encourage him. His foolishness will come to him eventually. When that time comes, it will only be more difficult for him to admit he was wrong if you're going along with this nonsense.

But if you're actually agreeing with the opinion that I'm a scourge of the forum, well. Perhaps you'll be kind enough to explain why.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/08/2021 03:17AM by Mr. P.

you argue, long-winded-ly, too much...that's all. I look forward to your poems.

cheers,

Peter

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/07/2021 03:02AM by petersz.

Fair enough. As to that, ignore me. Now, as it seems to be kick Mr. P day, my turn. I'll keep in mind your desires for brevity.

You tell yourselves life is something comforting because you're scared of the reality of things. The more I take those fantasies propping you up away, the less you are. Because you're scared, petrified without those pretty dreams.

That, gentlemen, is why I'm long-winded.

Excuse me, Perce. Living in the world I live in there is no way you have ever heard me suggest that 'life is something comforting.' The woman at the poetry reading who read the poem about being raped when she was 19 years old, 18 years ago, by a serial rapist, was not of a reality that is a merely comforting world. I would prefer you not put words in my mouth, I make enough trouble for myself with the thoughtless way I myself sometimes put words there. I avoid mind games as much as I avoid ... never mind. I posted my comments above to the other thread intentionally and recent your co-opting my posting by 'transferring' it to this one.

Peter

You came close enough to crossing the line on that venting comment, timed with Les and Merc's bitch fits, that I wasn't in the mood for generosity. I've been outnumbered by psychopaths far too many times in my life. I get quite angry when I even suspect that shit going on. So, perhaps you were merely indelicate, thoughtless, so be it. This will help you remember.

Percy Percy Percy.

Whilst I understand your vitriol dealing with certain tunnel visioned hippo(crites) on here, wallowing in their own versions of filthy reality, please try to give room to those who are either impartial or don't give a fuck. Alienate them and you're on your own son.

Of course your reply will be to the tune of solitary awareness, yeh yeh yeh, you can't kid a kidder Percy old boy. This is your virtual sanctuary, you'll be bereft if you can't berate the masses.

Chill brother, I'm on your side, and god's of course...

Hm? If you're saying that Peter is impartial yet I leapt at him, perhaps. But I've explained my reasoning for that. If you're saying you, or anyone else, was addressed in the business of pretty things, incorrect. Recall that I've been talking to Les, Merc, and Peter. I had no intention of addressing the whole world.

Now, I'm sure I've amused you a great deal, showing you a little of how to break this curse on humanity. But that doesn't put us on equal ground. I do not encourage harassment for the sake of one's ego. These two just happen to respond in just this manner to my going about my business. You will notice that they keep coming back,
I merely reply. If you'd like a true sense of security, no need to strut about like a fucking idiot, you come see me some day with your pants down. I have no time for your battered ego.

"But that doesn't put us on equal ground"

Of course not, I dwell in a much higher plain of consciousness.

It must be hard work being you Percy, keep on keeping on though.

cheers
Kris

It is a hallmark of intelligence to learn from the mistakes of others. I offer you the same challenge that broke Les and Merc. I have, for years, offered my opinions without veneer. Your turn, neuromancer.