to the end of days.

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 05/08/2021 11:17AM by easyeverett.

wars of ego for the ego's sake

...the overarching reason for the maiming and killing these past six years.

Joe

The poem is well done. Very well done. One of the many things Peter and I will never agree on is the structure of a poem. I don't read most which are not constructed with rhyme and meter.

BUT, as probably the only one on the board who made eleven trips to Iraq and five to Afghanstan over the last several years, I am going to disagree with your political stance on said wars, in spades. I gained my opinion of the situations with sand in my eyes, not watching CNN, or Democracy Now, nor even Fox News. The only thing required for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.

Also, I know this is not the political correct thing to say during this war, but to tell the troops, "Boy I love you, I really respect you guys, thank you so much, for being killed in a very unjust war, wasting your lives and killing innocent civilians for no reason I can fathom, and dying in vain for a trumped up cause brought on by a lust for oil (which we never took), and overlooking the fact that the evil you brought down had killed a hundred times the number of people you wonderful troops doing your duty have slain without remorse, I truly believe you very brave people are being used as pawns in a mess you are too stupid to understand, but without presidential briefings, and being myoptic, I can comprehend perfectly." loses some of the praise. Personally, I'd rather be called a "Nazi puppet, baby burning pig" like I was during and after Viet Nam. At least those low life's didn't try to hide behind a cloak of dishonest concern for my well being.

I retired, I am no longer a mercenary of any calibre. Had I not, I would not save a single life under the direction of our current administration. And were I an officer in the military, I would tender my resignation due to his incompetence, wavering stands, and arrogance. This is another thing upon which Pete and Terry disagree.

With that I withdraw, as I do not care to engage in any debate at the present. I know I could have herein started one, but we lost another airplane Saturday, with three guys trying to do their duty for people they didn't know. I go now to mourne them, not to fight you. See ya at the end of the summer when the fires are out.

Big difference between the troops on the ground Merc and the lies told to validate their deployment. Vietnam the same thing. Gulf of Tonkin not only didn't happen it was totally contrived by McNamara and his Ivy L. minions. To disagree with phony wars is quite as patriotic as agreeing with phony wars. You are confusing patriotism with jingoism.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/27/2009 06:13PM by easyeverett.

I would not save a single life under the direction of our current administration. And were I an officer in the military, I would tender my resignation

And all these years you had me fooled, Terry. I never thought your patriotism depended on which political party was in office. I know we disagree on the merits of the Iraq war but I have to tell you, if I were in the military now and was assigned there, I'd go, just as I went to another part of the world in '68 for a war I didn't believe in then. I think Tom's point about jingoism is valid.

Joe

Perhaps because of the way we were slaughtered in Viet Nam, I am a little more fussy for whom I die now. I could not,at this age, with my experience send men to their deaths now when all around are crying "foul!" My point above, I believe to still be valid. It takes a very good Christian to hate the sin, but love the sinner. Few are that good.

Voices all over the country rain down praise for the men and women who serve, while voices all over the country are telling them the action in which they so honorably serve is evil. It is impossible to honorably serve an evil master. OK OK,, Hitler, German GI's in WWII.. The world called them evil, but their own country did not. The crap that is being given to our troops makes me sick. It truly is not much different than the spittle which clung to my purple hearts in San Fran back in 64. I have known a few hundred of them, they, to a man, think the praise givers are hypocrits.

My patriotism???? Look up the word mecernary. Look up my Mexican address.

Tom, I will accept there is a difference between the troops and reason for deployment, BUT it goes much further than that. They are told they are wonderful, brave, near perfect human beings. Then they get home for a few nights and see the six oclock spin doctors tell the universe that this is not a war on terror, but a sustained overseas action. (Read police action, Pusan perimeter) (Read situation in South East Aisa) The news tells them that anywhere from a hundred thousand to near a million civilians have been killed. Gee,,, anyone remember Hiroshima? Anyone remember the World Trade Center, used to stand in NYC? Anyone seen the mass graves their own president put there? I have. I've seen so many bodys they could not be counted in one grave. Sodamn Insane was a weapon of mass destruction. Our folks are becoming confused. They see their commander in chief bow to the king of the country that produced the guys who dusted up the streets of NYC.
I'd tender my resignation, or maybe simply go back to my Mexican ranch and let them come look for me if they wished.

If you consider this war evil, that can be your opinion. It is the opinion of the majority of the country... why are we stil there? The opponents have the white house, and both sides of the capitol. Quick fix, bring 'em home. End it. To consider the war evil and the players honorable it still seems to me to be a contridiction.

Ya know what, I don't care anymore. I'm out of this one.

The crap that is being given to our troops makes me sick. It truly is not much different than the spittle which clung to my purple hearts in San Fran back in 64

I have to disagree with you once again Terry. People passionately oppose the war in Iraq because we were led into it through the lies of leaders like Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld and the naivete, or stupidity, of George W. Bush. But no one I know who opposes the war has anything but the highest regard for those who were deceived into fighting it. On the contrary, most of us view the men and women in today's military with the highest regard and respect, because they are able to ignore the cruel deception that was foisted upon them to continue to serve with dignity. They are perhaps the most honorable of any military personnel the US has ever had because of their dedication under these circumstances. To me, their "my country, right or wrong," attitude represents true patriotism. They serve because they gave their word that they would.

That surely was not the case 40 years ago. The clearest example of how the military was viewed by much of the public back then comes from my personal experience. I had just returned home from southeast Asia in November '69 at the end of my four-year hitch in the USAF. About a week after my return, one of our local civic organizations hosted a public recognition ceremony to thank all returning service men and women, regardless of their rank, military branch, or tour of duty. While the ceremony was taking place, anti-war demonstrators in the audience shouted the vilest of epithets at us, making it perfectly clear that they despised not only the war, but those of us who served in it. One of my fellow honorees actually had his recognition plaque torn from his hands and destroyed by a couple of jerks in the crowd when he left the platform.

That is a microcosm of how badly Viet Nam War veterans were treated back then, and I only offer it as a stark contrast to the way most of the public regards our military today, regardless of their views on the war. I have yet to hear of anyone reviling a member of today's military solely because of they believe the war is unjust.

Joe

We do disagree,a

We were led to it through lies of leaders like GW Bush, Dick Cheney, Rumsfield, Hilary Clinton, Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, John Kerry, (who couldn't decide if he voted for it or against it),,,, and which lies were those? WMD was the big one that was waved in the faces of our leaders for a long time. Where did those reports come from? Maybe the fact that Insane had used WMDs against his own people, not oft reported by the New York Times, but he did. Hundreds of thousands of Kurds were GASSED!!! GASSED!!! by him. No, there is no WMD, Bush is a liar. Maybe Insane used them all up. but the lies... They came from a very decimated intelligence service, which had been decimated by WJ Clinton, who had a chance to stop all of this with Bin Laden's head on a platter five years before the fact. But, he wanted the world to like him at that moment and opted not to take the bloody road.... oh until we found ourselves in Somalia. We have another like that leading us down the rose strewn path to our own destruction now.

More to the point of the subject at hand.

When a Marine are put on trail for killing a low life, cocksucking asshole that is "playing dead", against all rules of war, for the purpose of killing said Marine , and put on that trial by the government that sent the Marine there, not much has changed. When POW's are to be released back into the battlefield because they are being mistreated according to the people the POW's have sworn to kill, there is a drop in moral. Those who think GITMO is inhumane should see how some people live in Chicago, let alone Nazi, Japanese, Korean, Hanoi POW camps. Even San Jose, San Antonio, POW camps during the Big One. Many want the POW's put on trial,,, oh, it seems to me that it is against the law to try a POW for action on the battlefield.... hummmm... anyway, to put them on trial is to tell all of their comarades in arms how we do everything. Why not invite the wolf to have dinner with the chickens. Hey guys, the enemy wants to kill you. You personally. There is evil in this world and his name is not GW Bush. When the protected want the protectors to come home and stop doing what they have sworn to do, because one political standing has decided the commander is chief is stupid, moral drops. It is a wonder to me that there is a soldier left in our army. The fact that we still have a military is a wonder to me every morning as I watch what "our leaders" are saying. Instead of the rank and file of the US of A spitting on the purple hearts, and destroying the plaques, it's the six o'clock news, and congress doing it. And they decived our public into believing that they are pure in heart to revile the acts of brave people, and can do so without harming the moral of the people they claim to honor. You have been as decived as badly as you claim our troops have.

Simply watch the marine at the steps of "Marine One" when the last few Presidents depart the helicopter. Clinton leaves, the marine salutes, Obama leaves, the marine salutes, Bush (this is the stupid Bush) leaves, the marine HOLDS the salute. This single act will tell you a lot if you know how to read.

One thing I do belive, and hope I'm right, is that you people believe what you are saying. However, when it's night and I have an airplane load of Green Berets heading low level across Iraq, and one of them says, "I wonder what names the fucking six o' clock news will call us for this one?" I want the six o'clock news to report on easter egg hunts and stop telling our troops that they preform the work of Satan.

Those who have died in Iraq and Afghanstan will prove to have died in vein, because the American people have the attention span of a thirty minute sitcom, and the backbone of a wet dishrag. We ARE going to pull defeat from the jaws of victory and come home to make everyone in the world want to come to our picnic. No one will. Then those sworn to kill us will kill us. You, (the American people) chose this course of action. Reap the whirlwind. I'll be in Mexico.

And Brutus is an honorable man.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/29/2009 11:22AM by Merc.

I'll be in Mexico.


Better take some Thermiflu.


Les

The question is quite simple. Did an illegal and deceitful incursion in Iraq help or hinder our strategic position in the Mideast? Maliki today announced he wants to prosecute our soldiers for violations of his tactical directives. Fuck him and fuck the Iraqis. Scuse' my English. Our nonsensical invasion of a third rank dictator's domain has hurt us not helped in the slightest. I served eighteen months in Vietnam and followed orders as I pledged I would when I received my commission. When I returned to my University campus I joined a fledgling Vietnam Vets Against The War organization. It grew by leaps and bounds just as the Iraq Vets against the War is growing as I type. This macho attitude does not help our soldier's do their job. John Wayne is dead. God bless John Wayne!! tom

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/29/2009 12:54PM by easyeverett.

Instead of the rank and file of the US of A spitting on the purple hearts, and destroying the plaques, it's the six o'clock news, and congress doing it.

I guess we don't watch the same newscasts because I have not heard of a single newscaster or member of Congress "spitting on the purple hearts." To be sure, I've heard many from both camps who oppose the war, but none who oppose the people fighting it. And like it or not, that is what a democracy breeds - people who have the right and courage to disagree publicly, especially when harm is being done. To do otherwise is not only unpatriotic, as Tom has said - it is immoral.

I guess I just don't understand how people, to this day, can't see how we dropped the ball in the fight against terrorism. We were kicking ass in Afghanistan, the power base of Al Qaeda and the Taliban, and for no valid reason, pulled the plug on that operation to invade a country with a despotic ruler and third-rate military that posed no imminent threat to the safety of US citizens, or, at best, posed a threat far less substantial than threats in Afghanistan and elsewhere.

Certainly, Sadam was a scumbag of the lowest order, but he actually was a stabilizing force for us because of his hatred for Iran, and his neutral attitude towards Al Qaeda, and the Taliban. Sadam's gone and now Iran acts like it's the top dog in the mideast, and the Taliban and Al Qaeda are back to terrorizing and slaughtering innocent people in both Afghanistan and Pakistan while training their followers to kill Americans. That's the real issue for many of us who oppose the war in Iraq. I don't oppose any war on idealistic principles; I never have. But I do oppose war based on deception, greed, and the petty, misguided hatred of a few powerful leaders. In my view, the war in Afghanistan was justified while the war in Iraq is not. We should never have left until all the bastards in Afghanistan were dead.

I'm going to drop this now, because I know there is no way you and I ever will agree on Iraq. (Afghanistan, probably, but Iraq, no). I have nothing but the highest regard for you, Terry, and for what you have done, and continue to do, for our country and our people.

God Bless,

Joe

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/29/2009 08:54PM by hpesoj.

Comment Withdrawn.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/03/2022 12:30PM by hpesoj.

Tom, Here's my response to Terry on my thread. It pertains to how much space you take on the board.

amo,

Peter

Merc,

re: Tom pushing people off. I figure he's old enough to be able to know that he is doing that and that it is not fair to all those who only post once in a while. I guess, Terry, that your mentioning to me is sufficient to motivate me to say something to him. As an anarchist, I'm sure you know how much I hate being anyone else's cop or daddy or conscience, but I will take on the task.

Thanks for stopping by to read the poem.

amo,

Peter