could someone plz explain this poem to me..i dunno y ppl like it...it is so much like carrol.......all gibberish

I've seen plenty of commentary on JABBERWOCKY and nobody seems to think it "means" anything.

Some of the poems in the ALICE books are spoofs on other poems ("Father William," "The Lobster Quadrille," etc.), but not on their MEANINGS. Rather, he takes the FORM -- meter and specific rhymes -- of a (then) known poem, and puts gibberish or silliness in, replacing the original content.

But I don't think anyone has suggested such an "original" for Jabberwocky. I think it's just a "spoof" in this sense: There are lots of epics poems about courageous heroes slaying horrible monsters, and they tend to glisten with polysyllabic adjectives, so Carroll thought it would be fun to write one with no historical or literary background, and make up the polysyllabic adjectives so it would SOUND like an epic but not really be one.

Anyone know otherwise?

It's actually the shortest translation of Beowulf ever written.

It's a great adventure. I'll never forget a line of it.

'Twas brillig and the tithey sloves
Did wire and wimbel on the gabe
All gimsy were the boromoves
And the mome graths out wabe.

Runs through my head all the time.

That explains a lot.

Chortle.

Makes me feel mimsy all over!

Marian-NYC


I didn't think Mimsy was THAT kind of girl!

There's a long discussion in The Annotated Alice, ed. Martin Gardner. Tenniel's illustration parodies a mediaeval painting of St. George and the Dragon. There's also a wonderful film by Terry Gilliam.

I read something about the relationship between Tennial and Carroll that surprised me.

When Carroll wrote "The Walrus and the Carpenter" and gave it to Tenniel to illustrate, he provided two versions. One featured a walrus and a carpenter, and the other featured two completely different characters with the same number of syllables. (Sorry I can't remember what they were. It was something like "The Butler and the Barrister".)

Carroll told Tenniel to pick one based on what he felt like drawing, and he'd publish the versiion Tenniel chose to illustrate.

The same article said that critics have tried to argue that the "carpenter" represents Jesus, but this story explodes the notion.

---

That doesn't prove or disprove anything about JABBERWOCKY, but it's a caution to anyone who sets out to analyze the poems.

Which article? Written by someone with a malevolent sense of humour, no doubt. If you remember, at first Alice preferred the walrus, because he wept for the oysters, until she was told he was crying so that he could hide that he was eating more of them. She then decided she liked the carpenter better, because he didn't eat so many. Ah, she was told, that's true, but he still ate as many as he could, whereupon she decided they were both very unpleasant characters. The variant, i think, was "The Butcher and the Baronet."

I remember those details from somewhere, too. All I could find with a quick scan of my Annotated Alice was,

"When Carroll gave the manuscript of this poem to Tenniel for illustrating, he offered the artist a choice of drawing a carpenter, butterfly, or baronet. Each word fitted the rhyme schme, and Carroll had no preference so far as the nonsense was concerned. Tenniel chose the carpenter."

Am I the only one who finds the poem tends to run:

Twas brillig and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe
Where Alph the sacred river ran
Through caverns measureless to man...

Someone must be putting hallucinogens in my cocoa.

I don't know, there's something appealing about the idea of 'The Walrus and the Butterfly......'

pam

The "original" prequel to this poem appeared in "Mad" magazine in the early 1960's. Like Carroll’s version, it relies on the structure of our language to make nonsense appear as if it should have meaning.

It begins:

'Twas Brillo and the GE Stoves
Did Procter and Gamble in the Glade

A "Google" search for this brought up some interesting results -- everything from porn to Palestine.

For a fairly faithful copy of the “Mad” version, look here:
[www76.pair.com]

still clueless,but thank u. it just proves im not the only insane person in history

For Julia33

Twas brillig and the slithy toves,
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe,
Where Alph the sacred river ran,
Through caverns measureless to man.

I heard a fly buzz as I died
(his house is in the village, though);
The Walrus and the Carpenter
And all my toys about me lay.

A foolish thing is but a toy,
Of half-forgotten lore.
Because I could not stop for death
I told my wrath--my wrath did end.

The woods are lovely, dark and deep,
But I have promises to keep.
So come kiss me, sweet and twenty--
And Robin will restore amends.

Jabberwocky
by Lewis Carroll

'Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:
All mimsy were the borogoves,
And the mome raths outgrabe.

***This is a description- ignore it.

"Beware the Jabberwock, my son!
The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
The frumious Bandersnatch!"

**"Look out for monsters," Dad tells his kid.

He took his vorpal sword in hand:
Long time the manxome foe he sought --
So rested he by the Tumtum tree,
And stood a while in thought.


**Kid goes out to fight monsters.

And, as in uffish thought he stood,
The Jabberwock, with eyes of flame,
Came whiffling through the tulgey wood,
And burbled as it came!

**The monster attacks!

One two! One two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back.

**Kid kills monster! Cuts off head and takes it home to Dad.

"And hast thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
Oh frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!"
He chortled in his joy.

**Dad praises kid for bravery in monster killing.

'Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:
All mimsy were the borogoves,
And the mome raths outgrabe

**More description of the weather. Ignore.

Hope this helps.

pam

Jabberwocky
by Lewis Carroll

'Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:
All mimsy were the borogoves,
And the mome raths outgrabe.

***Political satire: The "wabe" is Parliament. "Toves" are members of the House of Lords; "borogroves" are in the House of Commons. "Slithy" means just what it sounds like.

"Beware the Jabberwock, my son!
The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
The frumious Bandersnatch!"

**"Look out for monsters," Queen Victoria warns Disraeli to beware of Gladstone and his cohort, or possibly cohorts, I've never been quite sure about that. Jubjub = Bentinck or Peel. Bandersnatch = Peel or Bentinck.

He took his vorpal sword in hand:
Long time the manxome foe he sought --
So rested he by the Tumtum tree,
And stood a while in thought.

**Disraeli does a road show through his constituency, thinking this will buy him time to strategize, rather than heading right to the House of Big Ben to confront Gladstone.

And, as in uffish thought he stood,
The Jabberwock, with eyes of flame,
Came whiffling through the tulgey wood,
And burbled as it came!

**A pre-emptive strike! Gladstone beards Disraeli in his den, interrupting a "town meeting" about the relative merits of oats, peas, beans, and barley, and calls on all queen-and-country-loving Brits to Vote for Beans!

One two! One two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back.

**Disraeli turns Gladstone's tactics against him by pointing out that oats, peas, and barley can be fed to horses, which provide transportation, while flatulence is unproven as a source of fuel. (That's "one.") In a deft move, he also prevents the oats-peas-barley vote from splitting three ways by movingly entreating peas and barley to withdraw for the sake of grain coalition. (That's "two.") He then steals Gladstone's toupee and brings it to Queen Victoria as proof of his triumph.

"And hast thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
Oh frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!"
He chortled in his joy.

**Queen Victoria, here referred to as "he" due to a typographical error in the first folio edition of the poem, celebrates and makes Disreali Amabassador to Callais. (Later changed to Earl of Beaconsfield for convenience.) Some have argued that "beamish" refers to Disraeli's reading glasses; others, that he was inebriated at the celebration.

'Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:
All mimsy were the borogoves,
And the mome raths outgrabe

**A fatalistic note, showing that nothing really changed in Parliament.

Hope this undoes all the help Pam provided.

Marian-NYC

>borogroves

Cue Chesil.

Other than that, spot on!

You're so kind. What about the sleeping in the snow?

pam

It still annoys me every time I listen to a Ted Hughes recital that he says borogroves!!

Chesil @ ph

Beautiful! Thank you! LOL.

I've always thought it was his mum, not his dad, doing the warning and the waiting etc on the grounds that his dad would have gone out and helped him kill it, or gone in his stead. Guess it just shows what an old fashioned girl I am!

Or my sexism in assuming that the character was male!

pam

This morning it occurred to me to add:

"TumTum Tree" - Like most trees in literature, this one clearly symbolizes the Cross, and Disraeli's decision to stand a while in thought by it represents his ambivalence towards his adopted Christianity.

Or maybe it's just the "old oak tree" or "spreading chestnut tree" in his constituency's main market town, Tumtumstead Wells (an adapted form of the pre-Roman place name, Tumpti-tumpti-tum-titty-tumford).


Re BOROG(R)OVES - mea culpa! mea culpa! mea culpa! How manxome of me!

manxome??
this is by the way a clear example of a poem that gets on my nerves. I get really frustrated when I read that, because it reminds me too much of reading a first book in a language you don't know yet. I do not like that feeling! ;-)

It's been translated into a zillion languages. Have you read any Dutch variations?

[www.cd.chalmers.se]

"And hast thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
Oh frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!"
He chortled in his joy.

Hadda be the dad chortling, not the kid, so the speaker is male.

very funny in dutch. Thanks! (and now I have the feeling I am seriously losing my dutch! ;-)

"Losing my Dutch"

I think I'll start saying that instead of "losing my grip" or "losing my mind."


(Oops, sorry -- too late! ALready lost!)

What's a warwelwok, anyway?

Your guess is as good as mine...

heyy,

don't worry. at first i didn't get the jabberwocky either. it's one of those poems that u have to read a few times. and it's not gibberish. lewis carroll took two words and made them one. some of the products are great words today. i.e: chortle, slively et cetera.

ttyl,
Brie

I think George Bush regularly read this poem to George W. and it goes far to explain W's prediliction for conquest and for his curious take on the English language.

Nowar

Now what?

Here is an interesting note:

[www.ourcivilisation.com]


"We know these lines now as the opening stanza of 'Jabber-wocky' ( Mr Roger Lancdyn Green has shown that there is a strong probability that the rest of the poem was influenced by 'The Shepherd of the Giant Mountains', a translation by Menella Smedley from the German of Fouque (Times Literary Supplement, 1st March 1957) ... "

So now we need to track down "The Shepherd of the Giant Mountains" by Fouque (?) in German, trans. Smedley.

Ready, set, go!

That would be my thought. Didja notice the strange quotes in Derek Hudsons piece about 'roves' and 'totwes'? I don't remember those from my Annotated Alice. Perhaps R.J. Allen has seen them before?