General Discussion : The Poetry Archive @eMule.com
I don't think Dean = Donne either, but for a different reason.
When I hear "Dean" I assume it means Swift (until proven otherwise) because he was professionally and generally known as "Dean Swift."
Jonathan Swift (1667-1745)
Oliver Goldsmith (1730?–1774)
Edmund Burke (1729-1797) was also Goldsmith's contemporary and a fellow Irishman. Likewise David Garrick (1717-1779) who FYI wrote this epitaph for Goldsmith (not carved on his headstone):
Here lies Nolly Goldsmith, for shortness called Noll,
Who wrote like an angel, but talked like poor Poll.
And that turns out to be CONNECTED TO THE POEM. While looking for Ridge et al. I happened upon this explanation of the poem:
G"oldsmith wrote Retaliation: A Poem in 1774, reponding to a proposal by David Garrick, the actor, that they compare their skill at epigrams by writing each other's epitaph. Goldsmith decided to write Garrick's epitaph along with those of ten others he imagined gathered about a table, including himself. "
[www.poeticbyway.com]
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Topics of or related to poetry.
Name hunting
Posted by: Pam Adams (134.71.18.---)
Date: October 10, 2021 05:13PM
Wonderful what comes up on 'Random Poem.' I'm assuming 'Dean' is John Donne.
pam
Retaliation: A Poem
by: Oliver Goldsmith
1 Of old, when Scarron his companions invited,
2 Each guest brought his dish, and the feast was united;
3 If our landlord supplies us with beef, and with fish,
4 Let each guest bring himself, and he brings the best dish:
5 Our Dean shall be venison, just fresh from the plains;
6 Our Burke shall be tongue, with a garnish of brains;
7 Our Will shall be wild fowl, of excellent flavour,
8 Our Cumberland's sweet-bread its place shall obtain,
9 And Douglas is pudding, substantial and plain:
10 Our Garrick's a salad, for in him we see
11 Oil, vinegar, sugar, and saltness agree:
12 To make out the dinner, full certain I am,
13 That Ridge is an anchovy, and Reynolds is lamb;
14 That Hickey's a capon, and by the same rule,
15 Magnanimous Goldsmith, a gooseberry fool:
16 At a dinner so various, at such a repast,
17 Who'd not be a glutton, and stick to the last:
18 Here, waiter, more wine, let me sit while I'm able,
19 'Till all my companions sink under the table;
20 Then with chaos and blunders encircling my head,
21 Let me ponder, and tell what I think of the dead.
22 Here lies the good Dean, re-united with earth,
23 Who mixt reason with pleasure, and wisdom with mirth:
24 If he had any faults, he has left us in doubt,
25 At least, in six weeks, I could not find 'em out;
26 Yet some have declar'd, and it can't be denied 'em,
27 That sly-boots was cursedly cunning to hide 'em.
28 Here lies our good Edmund, whose genius was such,
29 We scarcely can praise it, or blame it too much;
30 Who, born for the Universe, narrow'd his mind,
31 And to party gave up, what was meant for mankind.
32 Tho' fraught with all learning, yet straining his throat,
33 To persuade Tommy Townsend to lend him a vote;
34 Who, too deep for his hearers, still went on refining,
35 And thought of convincing, while they thought of dining;
36 Tho' equal to all things, for all things unfit,
37 Too nice for a statesman, too proud for a wit:
38 For a patriot too cool; for a drudge, disobedient,
39 And too fond of the right to pursue the expedient.
40 In short, 'twas his fate, unemploy'd, or in place, sir,
41 To eat mutton cold, and cut blocks with a razor.
42 Here lies honest William, whose heart was a mint,
43 While the owner ne'er knew half the good that was in't;
44 The pupil of impulse, it forc'd him along,
45 His conduct still right, with his argument wrong;
46 Still aiming at honour, yet fearing to roam,
47 The coachman was tipsy, the chariot drove home;
48 Would you ask for his merits, alas! he had none,
49 What was good was spontaneous, his faults were his own.
50 Here lies honest Richard, whose fate I must sigh at,
51 Alas, that such frolic should now be so quiet!
52 What spirits were his, what wit and what whim,
53 Now breaking a jest, and now breaking a limb;
54 Now wrangling and grumbling to keep up the ball,
55 Now teazing and vexing, yet laughing at all?
56 In short so provoking a devil was Dick,
57 That we wish'd him full ten times a day at Old Nick.
58 But missing his mirth and agreeable vein,
59 As often we wish'd to have Dick back again.
60 Here Cumberland lies having acted his parts,
61 The Terence of England, the mender of hearts;
62 A flattering painter, who made it his care
63 To draw men as they ought to be, not as they are.
64 His gallants were all faultless, his women divine,
65 And comedy wonders at being so fine;
66 Like a tragedy queen he has dizen'd her out,
67 Or rather like tragedy giving a rout.
68 His fools have their follies so lost in a crowd
69 Of virtues and feelings, that folly grows proud
70 And coxcombs alike in their failings alone,
71 Adopting his portraits are pleas'd with their own.
72 Say, where has our poet this malady caught,
73 Or wherefore his characters thus without fault?
74 Say was it that vainly directing his view,
75 To find out men's virtues and finding them few,
76 Quite sick of pursuing each troublesome elf,
77 He grew lazy at last and drew from himself?
78 Here Douglas retires from his toils to relax,
79 The scourge of impostors, the terror of quacks:
80 Come all ye quack bards, and ye quacking divines,
81 Come and dance on the spot where your tyrant reclines,
82 When Satire and Censure encircl'd his throne,
83 I fear'd for your safety, I fear'd for my own;
84 But now he is gone, and we want a detector,
85 Our Dodds shall be pious, our Kenricks shall lecture;
86 Macpherson write bombast, and call it a style,
87 Our Townshend make speeches, and I shall compile;
88 New Lauders and Bowers the Tweed shall cross over,
89 No countryman living their tricks to discover;
90 Detection her taper shall quench to a spark,
91 And Scotchman meet Scotchman and cheat in the dark.
92 Here lies David Garrick, describe me who can,
93 An abridgment of all that was pleasant in man;
94 As an actor, confest without rival to shine,
95 As a wit, if not first, in the very first line,
96 Yet with talents like these, and an excellent heart,
97 The man had his failings, a dupe to his art;
98 Like an ill-judging beauty, his colours he spread,
99 And beplaister'd, with rouge, his own natural red.
100 On the stage he was natural, simple, affecting,
101 'Twas only that, when he was off, he was acting:
102 With no reason on earth to go out of his way,
103 He turn'd and he varied full ten times a-day;
104 Tho' secure of our hearts, yet confoundedly sick,
105 If they were not his own by finessing and trick;
106 He cast off his friends, as a huntsman his pack,
107 For he knew when he pleas'd he could whistle them back.
108 Of praise a mere glutton, he swallow'd what came,
109 And the puff of a dunce, he mistook it for fame;
110 'Till his relish grown callous, almost to disease,
111 Who pepper'd the highest, was surest to please.
112 But let us be candid, and speak out our mind,
113 If dunces applauded, he paid them in kind.
114 Ye Kenricks, ye Kellys, and Woodfalls so grave,
115 What a commerce was yours, while you got and you gave?
116 How did Grub-street re-echo the shouts that you rais'd,
117 While he was beroscius'd, and you were beprais'd?
118 But peace to his spirit, wherever it flies,
119 To act as an angel, and mix it with skies:
120 Those poets, who owe their best fame to his skill,
121 Shall still be his flatterers, go where he will.
122 Old Shakespeare, receive him, with praise and with love,
123 And Beaumonts and Bens be his Kellys above.
124 Here Hickey reclines, a most blunt, pleasant creature,
125 And slander itself must allow him good-nature:
126 He cherish'd his friend, and he relish'd a bumper;
127 Yet one fault he had, and that one was a thumper:
128 Perhaps you may ask if the man was a miser?
129 I answer, no, no, for he always was wiser;
130 Too courteous, perhaps, or obligingly flat;
131 His very worst foe can't accuse him of that.
132 Perhaps he confided in men as they go,
133 And so was too foolishly honest; ah no!
134 Then what was his failing? come tell it, and burn ye,
135 He was, could he help it? a special attorney.
136 Here Reynolds is laid, and, to tell you my mind,
137 He has not left a wiser or better behind;
138 His pencil was striking, resistless and grand,
139 His manners were gentle, complying and bland;
140 Still born to improve us in every part,
141 His pencil our faces, his manners our heart:
142 To coxcombs averse, yet most civilly steering,
143 When they judg'd without skill he was still hard of hearing:
144 When they talk'd of their Raphaels, Corregios and stuff,
145 He shifted his trumpet, and only took snuff.
pam
Retaliation: A Poem
by: Oliver Goldsmith
1 Of old, when Scarron his companions invited,
2 Each guest brought his dish, and the feast was united;
3 If our landlord supplies us with beef, and with fish,
4 Let each guest bring himself, and he brings the best dish:
5 Our Dean shall be venison, just fresh from the plains;
6 Our Burke shall be tongue, with a garnish of brains;
7 Our Will shall be wild fowl, of excellent flavour,
8 Our Cumberland's sweet-bread its place shall obtain,
9 And Douglas is pudding, substantial and plain:
10 Our Garrick's a salad, for in him we see
11 Oil, vinegar, sugar, and saltness agree:
12 To make out the dinner, full certain I am,
13 That Ridge is an anchovy, and Reynolds is lamb;
14 That Hickey's a capon, and by the same rule,
15 Magnanimous Goldsmith, a gooseberry fool:
16 At a dinner so various, at such a repast,
17 Who'd not be a glutton, and stick to the last:
18 Here, waiter, more wine, let me sit while I'm able,
19 'Till all my companions sink under the table;
20 Then with chaos and blunders encircling my head,
21 Let me ponder, and tell what I think of the dead.
22 Here lies the good Dean, re-united with earth,
23 Who mixt reason with pleasure, and wisdom with mirth:
24 If he had any faults, he has left us in doubt,
25 At least, in six weeks, I could not find 'em out;
26 Yet some have declar'd, and it can't be denied 'em,
27 That sly-boots was cursedly cunning to hide 'em.
28 Here lies our good Edmund, whose genius was such,
29 We scarcely can praise it, or blame it too much;
30 Who, born for the Universe, narrow'd his mind,
31 And to party gave up, what was meant for mankind.
32 Tho' fraught with all learning, yet straining his throat,
33 To persuade Tommy Townsend to lend him a vote;
34 Who, too deep for his hearers, still went on refining,
35 And thought of convincing, while they thought of dining;
36 Tho' equal to all things, for all things unfit,
37 Too nice for a statesman, too proud for a wit:
38 For a patriot too cool; for a drudge, disobedient,
39 And too fond of the right to pursue the expedient.
40 In short, 'twas his fate, unemploy'd, or in place, sir,
41 To eat mutton cold, and cut blocks with a razor.
42 Here lies honest William, whose heart was a mint,
43 While the owner ne'er knew half the good that was in't;
44 The pupil of impulse, it forc'd him along,
45 His conduct still right, with his argument wrong;
46 Still aiming at honour, yet fearing to roam,
47 The coachman was tipsy, the chariot drove home;
48 Would you ask for his merits, alas! he had none,
49 What was good was spontaneous, his faults were his own.
50 Here lies honest Richard, whose fate I must sigh at,
51 Alas, that such frolic should now be so quiet!
52 What spirits were his, what wit and what whim,
53 Now breaking a jest, and now breaking a limb;
54 Now wrangling and grumbling to keep up the ball,
55 Now teazing and vexing, yet laughing at all?
56 In short so provoking a devil was Dick,
57 That we wish'd him full ten times a day at Old Nick.
58 But missing his mirth and agreeable vein,
59 As often we wish'd to have Dick back again.
60 Here Cumberland lies having acted his parts,
61 The Terence of England, the mender of hearts;
62 A flattering painter, who made it his care
63 To draw men as they ought to be, not as they are.
64 His gallants were all faultless, his women divine,
65 And comedy wonders at being so fine;
66 Like a tragedy queen he has dizen'd her out,
67 Or rather like tragedy giving a rout.
68 His fools have their follies so lost in a crowd
69 Of virtues and feelings, that folly grows proud
70 And coxcombs alike in their failings alone,
71 Adopting his portraits are pleas'd with their own.
72 Say, where has our poet this malady caught,
73 Or wherefore his characters thus without fault?
74 Say was it that vainly directing his view,
75 To find out men's virtues and finding them few,
76 Quite sick of pursuing each troublesome elf,
77 He grew lazy at last and drew from himself?
78 Here Douglas retires from his toils to relax,
79 The scourge of impostors, the terror of quacks:
80 Come all ye quack bards, and ye quacking divines,
81 Come and dance on the spot where your tyrant reclines,
82 When Satire and Censure encircl'd his throne,
83 I fear'd for your safety, I fear'd for my own;
84 But now he is gone, and we want a detector,
85 Our Dodds shall be pious, our Kenricks shall lecture;
86 Macpherson write bombast, and call it a style,
87 Our Townshend make speeches, and I shall compile;
88 New Lauders and Bowers the Tweed shall cross over,
89 No countryman living their tricks to discover;
90 Detection her taper shall quench to a spark,
91 And Scotchman meet Scotchman and cheat in the dark.
92 Here lies David Garrick, describe me who can,
93 An abridgment of all that was pleasant in man;
94 As an actor, confest without rival to shine,
95 As a wit, if not first, in the very first line,
96 Yet with talents like these, and an excellent heart,
97 The man had his failings, a dupe to his art;
98 Like an ill-judging beauty, his colours he spread,
99 And beplaister'd, with rouge, his own natural red.
100 On the stage he was natural, simple, affecting,
101 'Twas only that, when he was off, he was acting:
102 With no reason on earth to go out of his way,
103 He turn'd and he varied full ten times a-day;
104 Tho' secure of our hearts, yet confoundedly sick,
105 If they were not his own by finessing and trick;
106 He cast off his friends, as a huntsman his pack,
107 For he knew when he pleas'd he could whistle them back.
108 Of praise a mere glutton, he swallow'd what came,
109 And the puff of a dunce, he mistook it for fame;
110 'Till his relish grown callous, almost to disease,
111 Who pepper'd the highest, was surest to please.
112 But let us be candid, and speak out our mind,
113 If dunces applauded, he paid them in kind.
114 Ye Kenricks, ye Kellys, and Woodfalls so grave,
115 What a commerce was yours, while you got and you gave?
116 How did Grub-street re-echo the shouts that you rais'd,
117 While he was beroscius'd, and you were beprais'd?
118 But peace to his spirit, wherever it flies,
119 To act as an angel, and mix it with skies:
120 Those poets, who owe their best fame to his skill,
121 Shall still be his flatterers, go where he will.
122 Old Shakespeare, receive him, with praise and with love,
123 And Beaumonts and Bens be his Kellys above.
124 Here Hickey reclines, a most blunt, pleasant creature,
125 And slander itself must allow him good-nature:
126 He cherish'd his friend, and he relish'd a bumper;
127 Yet one fault he had, and that one was a thumper:
128 Perhaps you may ask if the man was a miser?
129 I answer, no, no, for he always was wiser;
130 Too courteous, perhaps, or obligingly flat;
131 His very worst foe can't accuse him of that.
132 Perhaps he confided in men as they go,
133 And so was too foolishly honest; ah no!
134 Then what was his failing? come tell it, and burn ye,
135 He was, could he help it? a special attorney.
136 Here Reynolds is laid, and, to tell you my mind,
137 He has not left a wiser or better behind;
138 His pencil was striking, resistless and grand,
139 His manners were gentle, complying and bland;
140 Still born to improve us in every part,
141 His pencil our faces, his manners our heart:
142 To coxcombs averse, yet most civilly steering,
143 When they judg'd without skill he was still hard of hearing:
144 When they talk'd of their Raphaels, Corregios and stuff,
145 He shifted his trumpet, and only took snuff.
Re: Name hunting
Posted by: Jack (12.46.184.---)
Date: October 10, 2021 05:53PM
Pam-
'Random Poem' is the feature of this site that I use most nowadays. I have to admit, sometimes it's like doing homework. But I have also stumbled on gems that I would not have know to look for elsewhere. Does that make sense?
The entry you have posted is loaded with inside jokes that are over my head, but some good gags too. I guess this would be fabulous to a reader who actually understood all of the references.
Sounds like more fodder for the 'Reading Room'.
'Random Poem' is the feature of this site that I use most nowadays. I have to admit, sometimes it's like doing homework. But I have also stumbled on gems that I would not have know to look for elsewhere. Does that make sense?
The entry you have posted is loaded with inside jokes that are over my head, but some good gags too. I guess this would be fabulous to a reader who actually understood all of the references.
Sounds like more fodder for the 'Reading Room'.
Re: Name hunting
Posted by: Chesil (12.224.137.---)
Date: October 10, 2021 07:24PM
Pam Adams wrote:
Wonderful what comes up on 'Random Poem.' I'm assuming
> 'Dean' is John Donne.
I don't think so, Pam. I believe the references were all drinking or coffee buddies of Goldsmith.
Wonderful what comes up on 'Random Poem.' I'm assuming
> 'Dean' is John Donne.
I don't think so, Pam. I believe the references were all drinking or coffee buddies of Goldsmith.
Re: Name hunting
Posted by: Marian-NYC (216.27.129.---)
Date: October 10, 2021 07:43PM
I don't think Dean = Donne either, but for a different reason.
When I hear "Dean" I assume it means Swift (until proven otherwise) because he was professionally and generally known as "Dean Swift."
Jonathan Swift (1667-1745)
Oliver Goldsmith (1730?–1774)
Edmund Burke (1729-1797) was also Goldsmith's contemporary and a fellow Irishman. Likewise David Garrick (1717-1779) who FYI wrote this epitaph for Goldsmith (not carved on his headstone):
Here lies Nolly Goldsmith, for shortness called Noll,
Who wrote like an angel, but talked like poor Poll.
And that turns out to be CONNECTED TO THE POEM. While looking for Ridge et al. I happened upon this explanation of the poem:
G"oldsmith wrote Retaliation: A Poem in 1774, reponding to a proposal by David Garrick, the actor, that they compare their skill at epigrams by writing each other's epitaph. Goldsmith decided to write Garrick's epitaph along with those of ten others he imagined gathered about a table, including himself. "
[www.poeticbyway.com]
Re: Name hunting
Posted by: Pam (134.71.18.---)
Date: October 10, 2021 07:57PM
The original Algonquin gang!
pam
pam
Re: Name hunting
Posted by: Chesil (12.224.137.---)
Date: October 10, 2021 08:08PM
Garrick and Burke were members of the same club and so was the Dean of Derry according to:
[www.printsgeorge.com]
Scroll down to The Thatched House.
[www.printsgeorge.com]
Scroll down to The Thatched House.
Re: Name hunting
Posted by: Marian-NYC (216.27.129.---)
Date: October 10, 2021 08:21PM
Dean of Derry! That probably clinches it.
I was thinking that if "our Dean" wasn't Swift, then it might be
a term of respect for Samuel Johnson.
I was thinking that if "our Dean" wasn't Swift, then it might be
a term of respect for Samuel Johnson.
Re: Name hunting
Posted by: Pam Adams (134.71.16.---)
Date: October 10, 2021 09:16PM
And this must be the source for the first line--
Twenty Years After, Ch 21. The Abbe Scarron.
by Alexandre Dumas
There was once in the Rue des Tournelles a house known by all the sedan chairmen and footmen of Paris, and yet, nevertheless, this house was neither that of a great lord nor of a rich man. There was neither dining, nor playing at cards, nor dancing in that house. Nevertheless, it was the rendezvous of the great world and all Paris went there. It was the abode of the little Abbe Scarron.
In the home of the witty abbe dwelt incessant laughter; there all the items of the day had their source and were so quickly transformed, misrepresented, metamorphosed, some into epigrams, some into falsehoods, that every one was anxious to pass an hour with little Scarron, listening to what he said, reporting it to others.
pam
Twenty Years After, Ch 21. The Abbe Scarron.
by Alexandre Dumas
There was once in the Rue des Tournelles a house known by all the sedan chairmen and footmen of Paris, and yet, nevertheless, this house was neither that of a great lord nor of a rich man. There was neither dining, nor playing at cards, nor dancing in that house. Nevertheless, it was the rendezvous of the great world and all Paris went there. It was the abode of the little Abbe Scarron.
In the home of the witty abbe dwelt incessant laughter; there all the items of the day had their source and were so quickly transformed, misrepresented, metamorphosed, some into epigrams, some into falsehoods, that every one was anxious to pass an hour with little Scarron, listening to what he said, reporting it to others.
pam
Re: Name hunting
Posted by: Marian-NYC (216.27.129.---)
Date: October 11, 2021 03:34PM
Pam -- publish! publish!
Hugh -- write a spoof about US!
Hugh -- write a spoof about US!
Re: Name hunting
Posted by: Hugh Clary (12.91.172.---)
Date: October 11, 2021 08:11PM
Omnium - Gatherum
eMule enthusiasts
Answer our questions for
Less than a dime;
Let's all forgive them for
Blatherskititiously
Changing the subject and
Wasting our time.